It looks like PMC has quite a few less-than lethal options (this leads to bean bag, flashbangs and stuff are links down the side). But I don’t know on legality and stuff.
The only thing I don’t like about the shotgun is if there’s kids around. Either you have to keep it locked up, so they don’t get to it, so it’ll be difficult to get to in an emergency or you have to hang it up high and then you’ll be stretching around in the dark trying to remember where you put the darn thing.
You know better than to post in this manner in IMHO. Consider this to be your first, last and only warning.
In the middle of the night, when the motives of an uninvited guest can certainly be called into question.
And you can train and prepare so you don’t panic and/or have an accident.
In response to the OP, I have a 12 guage shotgun for that purpose. Bit of a kick, but one shot should be enough if needed.
With slugs, it’s very good for bears as well.
What’s with all the bear stuff? Did Homer have bear issues?
If bears’d be a problem, I’d go for a .454 Casull…mmmm…
Then there’s that idea of having a tape ready of the sound of a large shotgun being racked. You hear a noise in the night, hit the tape, and hear a quick exit (if there really is a person there).
It’s a theory, anyway.
A rifle is definitely less-than-ideal for defense against someone breaking into your home. (A bullet will go out a window and hit your neighbor’s house 5 blocks away.) But I do have an FAL 308 battle rifle w/ two full 20-round mags on “standby” at all times. This is for fighting my way off my property in case the place gets assaulted by a group of people…
I am inclined to think that guns are largely ineffective at preventing anything. It seems like in most situations, the criminal will have the element of suprise on their side and you won’t even have time to get your gun, let alone aim and fire it. I’d spend the money on making sure nobody gets in my house in the first place.
I didnt imply, you inferred.
I have no idea how often he will practice, nor how often his wife, daughter, or mother will practice.
I agree that people should practice, but the reality is, that most of the 100 million americans who have guns, do not practice every week, nor every month, maybe not even once a year.
Even some cops dont practice more than once a year. Some cops only shoot when they have to, and dont ever shoot more than what is required by their department.
Esp if you are talking about all of the family members in the household. Maybe the man is all hopped up on guns and shoots every week, but most wives and daughters dont go to the range every week. They should, but they dont, there is more to life than just guns. Guns are tools, like hammers and saws. I dont use a hammer or saw every week either, but if I picked one up after months or years of non-use, I could still use it.
Once you learn how to shoot, you can pick up a gun after 20 years and still shoot just about as good as you did the last time you tried it. We are not talking about people being on swat teams, we are talking about average americans who have other things to do with most of their time besides guns.
I have also seen the safeties on a semi-automatic “freeze” in a locked safe position to where it took soaking in oil for an hour to unlock the safety, allowing it to shoot. No visible rust, just stuck from non-use. Ive never seen a revolver do the same thing, and safeties are just one or two more parts that you have to contend with if you store a loaded gun for a long time. Semi-automatics should not be left in a drawer for 6 months or longer, and expect them to be able to shoot.
Also, if you want to leave a gun hidden in the bathroom, I reccommend getting a stainless revolver.
Any gun is better than no gun.
Dont underestimate the lowly .22. I dont recommend it, but I dont underestimate it either.
Bobby Kennedy went down pretty fast after being shot by a .22 in 1968.
So did the 6 out of 6(or 9 out of 9) men that Allieen Wornous shot and immediately stopped and killed with her little .22 revolver.
Anyone in the medical profession can tell you that a .22 can do a lot of damage to any internal organ, and can be fatal. Most criminals will leave and prefer to bother an unarmed person instead of one who is pointing a .22 at them. There are lots of other unarmed defenseless people who have no guns at all, so why get shot by someone holding a .22?
The most important thing is to be able to hit what you are aiming at, and if you are old and feeble, and the only thing you can handle is a .22, then a .22 is right for you. My granny was feeble and a weak 90 pound with very small wrists, but she could easliy shoot a .22 revolver very accurately.
For average people, most people can easily shoot a .38 revolver which has very little recoil. A .38 makes a mess of peoples insides. Dont ever volunteer to be shot by a .38 to see how powerful it really is. The .38 was the standard police gun for their self defense for decades.
Just a minor nitpick: The thingy that holds the cartridges is called a magazine, not a “clip.” This is true for all types of guns (handguns, rifles, and shotguns). A “clip” refers to a stripper clip or moon clip.
In Dan Rather’s book The Camera Never Blinks, he describes waking up one night during the Watergate era to hear someone (an unauthorized someone) in his house. He grabbed his shotgun and went to the head of the stairs, announced loudly: “I don’t know who you are, but I want you to listen to this!”, and racked the action on his shotgun, noting in passing that the sound of a shotgun’s action being racked is quite unmistakable. Whoever it was cleared out quickly.
Rather did not know whether or not the burglury was related to the Watergate incident and his role as a prominent media figure on the “enemies list”, but the timing was enough to make him suspicious.
So here we have a Dan Rather admiting that having a gun in his house may have served to protect him from a government out of control. Sounds like some right-wing conspiracy whacko nutjob, no?
With a gun in the house, aren’t you more likely to shoot yourself, the wife, she shoots you, herself, the kids shoot themselves, each other, etc., etc, ? I can’t recall where I saw it, but I think those deaths outnumber burglars shot.
I have a security system, which thankfully I think is unnecessary, but wondering about what I would do if the damn thing went off at 2AM, I got an air-taser. It’s only two shots, but if I shoot one of the kids sneaking in late at night, at least I can unplug 'em.
Good start, bad finish, IMHO. IIRC, a 12 guage will hit with the force of about four simultaneous .45s, plus it is a lot easier to aim a long barrel than a short one. You can run a long, thin strip of reflective tape down the barrel for easier aiming in low light, or a fiber optic sight. (Example of the sight: www.pbreview.com/products/reviews/28 )
The thing is that you don’t want a double barrel. You only get two rounds, and although a judicious brandishing should scare off all but the really insane, you don’t want to be stuck high & dry if the worst should happen. Another problem is that you really don’t even want to have to brandish the gun. That’s where the pump-action shotgun comes into play. The sound of the pump action is a sound worth of note that many, if not most, American intruders will recognize as a sign to get the heck out of Dodge.
Also to note about pump-action shotguns is that they can be reloaded on the fly. So if you have that one in a billion encounter where you need to reload, you don’t have to empty the shotgun to do it.
If you have your heart set on a pistol, I’d test drive a .45. It is about the largest calibre you can get, but it is a slow-moving bullet so that it actually has less kick than a lot of other pistols. Plus they have very good records for bringing down assailants with one shot.
Whatever you do, be sure to take an NRA sponsored course on gun safety and the laws regarding self defense. Brandishing a gun without proper justification can get you thrown in jail, discharging one can get you really screwed. So be sure to know what is allowed in your state, and what you need to know to operate safely and legally.
If you are worried, load with slugs.
Or, in a double-barrel, one with slugs, the other, shot.
I am not being a troll I said what I believe. My opinion. It so happens it winds people up and I also said I enjoy winding gun people up which is my opinion. This forum is not General Questions, it is IMHO, so I consider the warning to be unfair. However, since you are a mod I better not argue about it to much - just stating my OPINION on the matter.
You’re probably thinking of the Kellermann “studies”. Do a search for his name on this board, we’ve discussed him and the flaws in his “research” to death.
In my old neighborhood, in the 11 years I lived there, I was forced to display a firearm five times to prevent someone from breaking into my house, even after they knew I was there. On the last occasion, I was forced to do so even after the person saw and heard me dial 911, while I had a butcher knife in my hand. He didn’t care, he was coming in. One look at my freshly retrieved .357 magnum (not pointed at him, merely displayed) convinced him to flee.
Btw: The police finally drove down the alley fifteen minutes later. They did not even stop.
My sister owns a shotgun that she’s never even bought shells for. In her old house, she thwarted one break-in merely by working the pump. That ‘ca-chlick’ sound was quite enough to send him packing.
But as everyone else has said;
a> I’d be wary of having a ready, loaded weapon lying around the house if I had kids.
b> You must be willing to use it, or don’t have it.
c> You’re risking that it will be found and possibly used against you if it’s not by your bed or if you enter the house after they do.
d> Don’t buy a gun unless you know how to use it or are willing to learn.
e> Don’t buy a gun if you are an idiot. We don’t need more idiots with guns.
f> Always be completely certain of what you are shooting at. You should never fire at shadows or the moment you see something. That is just plain irresponsibly stupid (see e above).
I like my double barrelled 12 gauge, sawed off shotgun just fine. It holds twp 3" magnum 00bucks. Now pay real close attention…that is two rounds (more shots than you’ll need) I’ve got other weapons but in the dark with one or two creeps after me. Yep, this is the first thing I’m grabbing.
My .45 will probably be real handy as well.
as far as spraying pellets or BB’s or whatever was said.
Each 12 ga.00 buck shot gun shell has 9 - .38caliber soft lead slugs in them. That’s 18 bullets fired in two trigger pulls.
With the barrel at 18" I can blow a 3’ diameter hole through a heavy piece of plywood at 25’ w/ express rounds. Through a door, from side to side & from headheight to the knees.
I don’t even have to aim it. Can’t miss…2nd round no jams ever. Easy and quick to reload, although you’d never have to. In the dark who’s gonna come in after his buddy is cut in two laying in the doorway.
Don’t get me wrong, the sound of a pump is a scary sound. But, in a situation where I feel the need to arm myself. I’m not letting anyone know where I’m at. (not until it’s too late or I don’t have a choice) Hopefully it’ll never happen like that again, been there once before you see.
BTW the short barrel minimizes the effective distance. While making a larger “pattern” for close up.
AND that’s what it’ll be, close up. Think about it. What the longest distance in your home. At most probably 50’ Beyond that , the sawed off is fairly useless (using standard shells, NOT the magnum rounds that I prefer) which is another positive aspect. You don’t have to worry about injuring someone next door. OR in the next room for that matter because once the force is used it lacks the penetration to do MORE damage. So a “stray” bullet won’t go through a wall and hurt someone in another room.
I suppose if you were standing right beside the wall and someone was just on the other side, sure that’d do it.
And yes I’m aware of the fact that I claimed to destroy a piece of plywood at 25’. But the slugs didn’t travel far beyond that. Besides, like I said I was using the 3’ express magnum, I don’t always load with those.
But for stopping power, two 3" 00 12ga. rounds to the chest’ll stop damn near anything on the planet.
Think about singlebarrel breakover 20ga. They’re real cheap at pawn shops etc. less than 50$
Sawed down or not/ pistol gripped? Maybe, two or three even. Kinda like an old pirate, turn 'em into handguns and stick two or three in yer belt…aaarrrgh