I’m going to be moving to a rather shady 'hood pretty soon, and I’d like to buy a firearm for home defense.
Back in scouts, I turned out to be pretty damn good with a 12 gauge on clay pigeons, and an awful rifle shot. I don’t really want to mess with handguns. So I’m leaning towards some sort of shotgun.
I’d prefer something 12 gauge or smaller, relatively compact, and with enough room in the magazine for a few shells. Spending less than $350 would be nice, too.
Any suggestions?
I’d suggest 20 gauge, or even .410–reason being, it’ll be nothing to sneeze at close-up, with the added benefit that it won’t punch through eighteen walls should you miss.
You should get a handgun. I know you said you don’t really want one, but you should really look into it. I’d suggest the 9mm Ruger P89. That and a box of 147 grain hollow points, and you’re set.
A shotgun is considered by many as the best for home defense. A Remington 870, I believe is common, inexpensive, and perfect for the purpose.
I’ll second the Remington. A lot of people like Mossbergs, but I’ve heard they’re not quite as sturdy and reliable as Remingtons. The 12 guage is ok, if you are worried about overpenetration, use smaller shot (larger number = smaller shot).
However, if you feel you need a gun at home, do you feel you don’t need one when you go out? At least in your car if you don’t want to or can’t carry it?
Even if you wouldn’t normally take it with you, if you had a pistol, you could.
It would require more practice than a shotgun though, and it may be harder to choose the best one for you.
Any well made 12 guage pump shotgun is just about as ideal a weapon for home defense as possible. Remington, Winchester, and Mossberg are all perfectly suitable. Number 8 shot is easy to find and pretty good. I prefer #12 for use inside the home but it is a bit harder to find. With anything larger than #4 shot, you’re probably better off with a handgun. Get a shotgun with an 18 inch barrel (most are actually 18.25-18.5", just to ensure BATF compliance). I like the 8-shot versions better, but a five shot magazine is probably enough. A short wood stock, sometimes known as a combat stock, is better for home use than a longer field stock. I generally advise against pistol grips. If children are not a problem with regards to storage, the best practice is to store it loaded but not chambered. The most terrifying sound in the world is that of a pump shotgun being racked in the dark, if you know what I mean. Practice at least annually and give it a good cleaning quarterly and you’ll get decades of service from one.
If you go with a pistol, avoid the 147gr 9mm bullets Silver Fire mentioned. They overpenetrate and are not as effective as 115gr for taking someone down. The 147 was originally developed as a subsonic round for the Navy SEALs and their supressed machine guns, not home defense. IMHO, unless you have a supressor on your 9mm, they suck. My recommendation for 9mm home defense is the 115gr Federal NyClad bullet. It’ll feed as well as a metal jacketed bullet but won’t penetrate 93 layers of sheetrock. If you go for a .45 auto, 185gr JHP rocks. After frangible bullets, which can be murderously expensive and hard to find in some places, the .45 185gr JHP is the single most effective combat pistol round for defeating a human adversary.
As far as which pistol model, the Glock is probably the best all-around auto pistol for someone who doesn’t shoot much. They are virtually indestructible, reliable, safe*, and simple to operate. There is a great range of options for size and caliber, making one of them suitable for just about anybody.
If you’re not ready to shoot, keep your gddamn finger off the trigger. Otherwise, a Glock will not accidentally discharge under any reasonable range of conditions.
I’m partial to a TC Contender with the .45 caliber barrel. It’s a handgun that takes multiple barrels, and the .45 version just happens to take a .410 shotgun shell. The gun is solid enough to fire a shotgun shell, and it’s handgun sized. I used to shoot skeet with the aforementioned setup.
I’ll second the Glock. Go for one of the smaller capacity ones. You’re looking to defend your home, not start a war. Once you’ve got it, invest in a good quick-access gunsafe. There are a number available, and unless you know the code, they’re fairly tough to get open, but if you do know the code, you can be armed in seconds. Practice getting your weapon out of the safe a lot. In the middle of the night. When you’ve just woken up. After a fast sprint from the farthest part of the house. With someone yelling in your ear. The idea is that if you can open the safe quickly under stressful conditions in practice, you’ll be more able to arm yourself quickly if you ever need the weapon, and you’ll be less likely to contribute to an unfortunate statistic.
As for shotguns, if you’re not going to be practicing much, get a 20gage. Load it with #4, #6, or #8 shot. Slide (or ‘pump’) action is excellent, but don’t overlook the possibility of a side-by-side double barrel, either. Especially if you don’t have much time to practice, the simplicity of a double barrel can be a life-saver. It’s also intimidating as all hell, and won’t make it easy for a lawyer suing you to brand you a ‘Rambo’, should you ever need to actually need to shoot someone (If you do shoot someone, count on being sued. If you’ve done it by the numbers, it’ll be a quickly-handled nuisance. Done wrong, you’ll go to jail, no matter how ‘justified’ you were.) Ideally, if you can scare the perps out of your place without pulling the trigger, that’s best, and a good shotgun is really excellent for that. That’s one item that slide-action shotgun has above all other weapons: There’s nothing more recognizable and scary than the ‘shhic-Klack’ of a shotgun slide being cycled.
Whatever weapon you choose, go to the range. Practice 'till you’re sick of the smell of gunpowder. Then practice some more. Buy and read Stressfire by Massaad Ayoob. Read it again. Now read it once more. Live Ayoob’s advice like it was religion. Now work up a plan for all possible home defense situations, and practice it. Make sure that anyone who will be spending an appreciable amount of time in your home knows the plan. Now go back and read Stressfire again. And get your butt to the range for more practice.
That’s how you’ll end up a safe, thoughtful, and unafraid survivor, rather than an unfortunate statistic.
A couple words of warning here from my own research and experiences: Anything smaller than #6 shot, and you’re risking a lot of effectiveness. Shot in the 8-12 range can be stopped by a leather jacket. Sure, it’s still like getting hit with a baseball bat, but if you’re shooting, the ability to kill the target is kind of necessary. I personally use #4 in a Mossberg pump 20 gauge. Range and accuracy are still good, and you don’t have the over-penetration worries you get with #2 and 00
Truer words were never spoken
**sewalk ** I assume you’re only referring to FMJs with this paragraph? Otherwise this is inaccurate on a couple of points and needs clarification.
First, 147gr HydraShoks do not overpenetrate (They rarely exit the body -just like they’re designed to do), and are more effective in takedowns than 115’s. If you look at the charts Massad Ayoob published a few yers ago when he was taking shooting reports and building a round effetiveness matrix, 147 frangibles led the 9mm pack. 115 FMJs came in last. 115’s best and primary use is as an inexpensive range load, although I will stipulate that frangible and JHPs in 115 can do a good job.
If you’re using a handgun for defense, you need to lay out the “murderous” expense and take the effort to use frangibles or JHPs. Otherwise, there’s far too great a risk of over-penetration in any grain size, leaving the defender open to an increased array of liability claims. FMJs should only be used on the range. In .45, I prefer the 230 gr. HydraShok, but there’s nothing wrong at all with the 185s.
Second, factory 147s are not subsonic. They were developed by the SEALS as a submachine gun round, but only because they wanted the added takedown power of a heavier bullet in a universally available chambering. The 147 was developed as a compromise between the 9mm universality and the .45 higher stopping power. Loads with lighter charges to take them down to subsonic WERE developed simultaneously for the SEALS, but that wasn’t the primary objective.
No argument whatsoever. Glocks are reasonably inexpensive for a high-end pistol, easy to feed, ultra-reliable and an all around great handgun. I’m not nuts about their ergonomics (which is why I carry a Beretta), but my wife’s Glock is a sweetheart to shoot, even if it does feel like a hamhock.
Thanks everybody.
We don’t have concealed carry here in Ohio (at the moment), so handguns are pretty much out. Walking around visibly strapped won’t really endear me to my neighbors that much. I’m not so much worried about getting mugged as having somebody break in to steal all my stuff. I realize that the most likely scenario would be somebody climbing up the fire escape when I’m not home, but you never know.
I’ll probably end up going with a Remington 20ga, because I want my girlfriend to be able to handle it if she needs to.
Would it be a bad idea to get one used? Google gave me a few at $225-$300.
Get a gunsmith to look it over first, but in general, no, there’s no real trouble with secondhand weapons. Make sure you comply with local, state, and federal laws regarding transfer of ownership of a firearm. Contact your friendly local FFL for more info.
There are quick-release lockable holders for shotguns, similar in concept to the links I posted above.
Again, plan in advance what you’d do in any concievable situation, then have friends try and poke holes in your theories. Patch all the holes, and try again. Keep your plans as simple as possible, consistent with them actually working for you and your situation.
Read Ayoob, and get your butt (Girlfiend’s butt, too, if she’s going to be allowed access to the weapon) to the range.
I’m just not a big fan of this load, even when pumped up to supersonic velocities. I come from the “velocity” school and prefer faster, lighter bullets, especially, most especially, for home defense. On FMJ bullets, I should have been more clear: these are terrible, in any caliber, for home defense.
As far as the shotgun loads, at home defense ranges, the difference in lethality between #4 and #8 is pretty miniscule. Even #12 is quite lethal inside 20 feet. It also spreads better and is far less likely to overpenetrate than #4. Even with body armor, a 12ga blast at 20 feet can be lethal due to blunt trauma effect.
Your opinion on this:
I use two 12 Gauge Pumps loaded with 2 3/4in. 00 Buck and 165 grain Hydra-Shok in .40 S&W.
Too much or not enough?
I agree. I was talking recently to the manager of a local gun shop and was asking the same questions. He told me that an inexpensive but reliable shotgun (such as a Remington) is the best for home defense. This is his main reason: “When the shutgun is cocked, that sound alone is enough to so terrify an intruder that he would high-tail out of there so quickly, you wouldn’t even have time to fire.” Nicely said, eh? A Remigton 870 would beyour best bet, IMHO.
Not to mention pretty damn pricey, too…
Since you asked: I like the 165gr 10mm bullet. When I had my Delta Elite, I ginned up 200 handloads using the Hornady XTP 165gr JHP. The performance was excellent (1500fps and accurate as hell). Street use data for 165gr bullets is still a little sparse but I’d expect them to outperform 180 or 200gr in stopping power assuming corresponding powder loadings in 10mm or .40S&W. The trends in the Thompson and Ayoob studies favor faster lighter bullets in a given caliber.
Ditch the buckshot for home defense. At close range, #4 is more than sufficient. Remember, we’re talking about shooting in your own home. Do you really want to penetrate five or six layers of sheetrock? One thing to remember is that you’re not actually trying to kill someone; incapacitation is the real goal. No one I’ve ever met is going to get up after taking a load of #8 shot in the chest at a range of 25 feet unless they’re wearing body armor. Even then, 00 probably wouldn’t be much more effective and they would probably still likely be out of the fight, at least temporarily. I still stand by #12. It’s not as likely to cause collateral casualties as larger shot and retains plenty of energy at 25 feet. BTW, lead shot is preferred over steel shot for anything but waterfowl hunting.
Black, you might want to check out this thread, it starts as home defense scenario, covers alot of issues you will be interested in
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=61936
In the hands of an inexperienced or occasional shooter I would tend to lean toward the full sized models. They are a little heavier which makes the recoil a bit more manageable and they will have a few extra shots that the smaller frame models won’t. I went for the Glock-19 because I wanted something more concealable. I am also a big fan of handguns in general for home defense, they are far easier to manuver in close quarters. Accuracy is really not much of an issue at home defense ranges. If a bad guy charges you, point gun, pull trigger, repeat until bad guy falls down.
I would agree with this for the same reasons I suggest the heavier handgun, manageability. If you can handle it the 12 gauge is alot more bang for your buck. Also with some of the lighter loads even a smaller framed individual can handle it. Some ranges have guns you can check out/rent, or borrow from friends. Experiment with as many as you can to see what you are most comfortable with.
AMEN!
All you need is one (1) AR-15 of any particular model (I highly reccomend the Bushmaster brand) with one (1) thirty round magazine loaded in the well, one (1) kevlar vest and helmet w/matching woodland camo covers, one LBE vest with 6 loaded magazines (180 rounds), four HE frag . . .
Oh, you meant home defense. . .
I tell people one thing: Buy what you feel comfortable with. Some of the ranges I used to go to have a variety of handguns they can loan or rent out for the hour. Go down and try a few. Maybe you’ll like the Beretta 92F more than the Glock. Maybe a Sig has your name on it. Take a look, and ask the guys in the shop what they’d prefer. Don’t listen to their sales talk, but ask them why they chose it (ie, IRL, I carry a Sig P232 because I have smaller hands, and it just fits well). Ask 'em if they’ve ever used it (Godforbid). And, take it onto the range. Maybe that 40SW is a little too much kick for you, compared to the 9mm. This goes for longarms too. If you ever had to draw your weapon, you’d tend to want something you were comfortable with.
Tripler
But I still carry 210 rounds when I sweep and clear my house. 
With all that’s been said about autopistols, don’t overlook revolvers, particularly the Smith&Wesson K and L frame .357 Magnum models(13, 19, 65, 66, 581, 586, 681, and 686) and the Taurus clones.
My personal bedside weapon is a nickel-plated four-inch Model 19; three readied speedloaders are in the drawer with it. In an adrenaline-charged situation, the tried and true double-action wheel gun is hard to beat. There is no safety to worry about, no slide to charge, just point and shoot.
A good .357 can be had for a lot less than a good automatic. Considering that most automatics available today hold 10 or fewer rounds in the magazine, a six-shooter is not the liability it used to be.
If your better half has trouble handling full .357 loads, .38+P loads make a great substitute. At the range, cheap .38 Special loads can be used to help you keep your edge with little effect on your performance with more powerful rounds. If the grips don’t fit your hands, you have a multitude of aftermarket choices to rectify that. No automatic has the versatility of a .357 revolver. Home defense one day, grizzly bear hunting in the Rockies the next (well, OK, it takes a special kind of hunter to go after bear with a .357, but many have successfully done it).