I wanna shoot a tranger

In My Humble Opinion
1

Recent readjustments in my life have lead me to decide that I should add a firearm to my homebound personal security arrangements.

And I don’t know zip about firearms, so I’m soliciting advice from our gunners, of which I know we have at least a few.
This won’t be a concealed carry weapon. What should I do?

I mentioned my concern to a few friends a couple of weeks ago and one soon showed up with a bag of guns for me to try holding. Upon that inspection I decided that the .38 Special and the 1911 .45 were my favorites.

A factor that must be mentioned is that I have essential tremors, so, well, my hands shake. Quite a bit, as a matter of fact.

This weekend I had the opportunity to try out, courtesy of said friend, quite a few guns. And I learned a bit, but I still have miles to go,

I shot about 900 rounds through a .22 Magnum derringer, a .32 automatic that will only fire hollow points, a .38 hammerless snubnose Special, a .357 Magnum revolver, a 9 mm automatic, a .40 caliber automatic, a .44 Magnum revolver, a .45 caliber 1911 automatic, a 30 .06, a 30-30, a 12-guage shotgun and a Mini-14.

It was an educational experience. One thing I took back from it is that revolvers are not for me. Another thing I learned from the exercise was that I tend to fire high when hip-firing the shotgun. And I did so much better with the autos v. the revolvers. And the difference within that class was huge.

I was consistently 8 out of 8 with the .45, and every other gun was less. I did, though, notice that the weight of the gun made a huge difference. Lighter guns were harder for me to get on target. While I scored my only bullseye with the .22 Magnum, that was a fluke shot and I found the gun too small to really point and shoot with any idea where the bullet was going.

Just for fun I’ll include that I did nail two one gallon water jugs at 130 yards, one with the 30.06 and one with the 30-30. Of course I had a scope - otherwise I doubt That I would have even seen’em creepin’ up on me. But I doubt either of those guns are viable home defense weapons.

And in the just for fun vein, I’ll add that the Mini-14 was the best hoot to shoot. But that, as well, doesn’t seem like the best home defense weapon.

My Gunner friend recommended a .410 shotgun as the best home defense. I appreciate his reasoning, but questions of concealability, accessibility and manueverability make me think something along the lines of the 1911 .45 might be the superior choice.

Thoughts?

2

I’m no expert, but shotguns (usually 20- or 12-gauge) are usually considered best for home defense. They’re a lot more powerful than a pistol, and shoulder arms are a lot easier to shoot well than a pistol. Even more so if you have shaky hands.

3

The OP is an interesting one but I’m having trouble getting past the title of the thread.

4

What is a tranger? A Stranger?

Anyway, if I ever end up getting a gun for home defense it will probably be a shotgun. (I’m a girl, btw). Mostly because hopefully I won’t ever have to shoot it at someone. The racking back of the slide is a clear indication of what I’ve got in my hands, and very few people would mistake that for anything else. I think it’s easier to get than a pistol permit, and if I load it with buckshot I would feel better about shooting it as it’s less inclined to go through a wall as a slug or bullet might/would. It’s fairly easy to learn, and with buckshot again you don’t have to aim too well.

I wouldn’t carry a pistol or use it for home defense. If I had a pistol at home, it would be safely locked up, as I believe pistols are inherently more dangerous than shotguns. (It’s really hard to point a shotgun at yourself and shoot yourself.) A shotgun just seems more natural for home defense.

Please understand my views on pistols are mine alone. I certainly don’t want this to turn into a gun control debate!

5

  1. Explain the Thread title, if you please.

  2. “Best” home defense weapon is totally contingent on what you can handle and are comfortable and trained with. That said…shotgun, 20 gauge or larger. The .410 isn’t sufficient, IMO. If you feel more comfortable with the .45, then go that route. But you generally are best served with a 12 gauge pump shotgun.

6

A Heckler&Koch USP .45 might be good for you. It incorporates all the nice things that people have learned about pistols since John Browning roamed the Earth.

As for securing a loaded pistol: trigger locks. You can use magnetic trigger locks if you want rapid access.

And nothing can argue with a nice, cheap, good Mossberg. Get the police model in 12Ga, with the extended tube magazine. Then use either slugs or 00 shot. Save the hip-shots for the movies: fire from the shoulder, for both aim and control.

But please, for the love of Og, get some training first. From a certified insructor. You can find contacts for such at the gun shops.

And be aware of the laws regarding deadly force and firearm discharge for your residential jurisdiction.

7

BUCKSHOT? Does not compute. Buckshot is loaded with large slugs - suitable for killing large deer. It will most certainly go straight through a wall and kill your neighbor or your loved ones.

I think you mean birdshot.

  • Peter Wiggen
8

IMHO, if you’re looking for a home defense weapon, a 12 guage is by far and away the best bet. Shotguns are reasonably priced, have a diverse assortment of shells to choose from (#4 buckshot being a great compormise of power, recoil management and lack of over-penetration), and are just about the most threatening firearm around when inside close quarters (this is actually a relevant consideration, as a predator is not likely to force you to shoot him if he is intimidated).

That said, if you have children and believe that you may have to clear rooms in the event that something unfortunate happens, a shotgun is not as maneuverable as a handgun. I’m not saying that the shotty won’t work well for room-clearing, it does; it just requires more practice.

If you’re already leaning towards a handgun, my personal favorite is the 1911 (in 45acp, of course). Just make sure to practice with it, as especially the tricked-out ones sometimes need some reliability issues to be worked out. 1911s are a great deal of fun, also, and a decent concealment piece if you ever feel the need for it.

Just keep in mind bringing a long-gun (be it shotgun or rifle) to a gunfight is, to use an analogy of Massad Ayoob’s (cop and prominent firearms instructor), like bringing a chainsaw to a knife-fight.

Recommendations on reasonably-priced, specific arms:

Shotgun- Mossberg 500, Remington 870

1911- Springfield mil-spec, Rock Island Armory, and I’ve heard Taurus 1911s are excellent bang-for-the-buck (I have no personal experience with a Taurus 1911).

I wish I had more time to elaborate, and I might later, but I have a Chemistry class coming up. (Yay, night classes.)

9

I have a Taurus .45, among others. If my life is on the line, I’ll reach for my High Power, thank you very much.

10

Yes, apologies. I’m working on several things here and didn’t have my whole mind focused. You’ve often corrected me in several threads and been very patient, thank you.

11

In addition to their other merits, shotguns have a bigger psychological impact as well. They’re big and their scary, anyone looks intimidating when they’re holding one no matter how diminutive they actually are.

Disclaimer: I’m not a gun guy, but I’ve always found the subject interesting, have read a lot, spent time at the firing range, and worked closely with Police officers who love to discuss this stuff.

12

Wrong. Buckshot is not “large slugs”. 00 buck is less than 9mm and will have a much slower velocity than a bullet. Most walls would probably stop it.

00 or 000 buckshot is pretty much what you are looking for for home defense.

13

True. Nothing says “You Just Fucked Up” like the “shk-shuk” sound of a pump shotgun’s action.

14

O use a #4 buckshot load.

15

Don’t shoot!!

Heh.

Anyway, the first thing you need to do, before arming yourself in anticipation of any violent conflict is to arm yourself with an understanding of the legal, moral, and ethical consequences, as well as the knowledge of how to handle and use a firearm in a defensive situation. Here is the NRA-ILA’s summary of state laws; it’s worthwhile to actually read through state penal codes as well to make confirm their interpretation. There are a number of books and online information sources regarding armed self-defense; here’s the rec.guns page on self-defense with several articles on different aspects of self- and home-defense. There’s a lot more to being prepared than simply owning a gun.

As for selection of weapon, I’d advise a 20 or 12 gauge shotgun, which in inarguably the most powerful close-range firearm that can be owned by a civilian. For interior use, I’d use #3 or #4 shot in a 2-3/4" shell, which is still devistating at close range (10 meters) but won’t penetrate through multiple layers of wallboard or house exterior, particularly if you live in a populated area. If you need more range you can switch to #0 or even sabot/slug rounds, though I’d be hard pressed to come up with a defensive situation outside of an urban riot where such range would be justified. The shotgun is also easier to wield, less likely to be discharged accidentially or to cross yourself with the muzzle. Don’t, by the way, fire from the hip unless you absolutely have to; even a cylinder bore shotgun pattern won’t disperse much at close range, and point shooting can be tricky for trained experts. Most companies, like Mossburg, make defense versions of shotguns with a ghost-ring type sight, but at the ranges you’ll be considering the standard bead sight should be fine (paint it white for greater visibility) and more defensible in court as “a strictly sporting weapon pressed into use for defense against bodily harm” rather than “evil, plastic stocked, heat-shield, assault gun only good for killing innocent trespassers and kittens.” (Never mind that both guns are functionally identical; ignorant media and vengeful prosecutors will attempt to make much hay out of a gun which looked ugly.)

I’d stay away from rifles for self defense, except perhaps a rifle chambered in pistol caliber like 9mm, .45AC, or .44 Magnum. You can find guns like this occasionally–Marlin used to make the rather excellent camp carbine in the first two, and Ruger and Winchester make lever action carbines for the latter)–but major rifle calibers are just too powerful for home defense, with too much likelyhood of overpenetration.

Handguns, as you’ve already discovered, are much more difficult to learn to shoot, and in terms of controllability offer a greater chance of covering yourself with the muzzle (thereby violating Rule #3). Autoloaders, although easier (in my opinion) to handle, are mechanically more complicated. Good quality modern handguns won’t jam often and with training one can become quite effective, but if you’re only going to purchase one and one only to be kept at home, I’d go for the longarm. If you do opt for a handgun, get one in a “major” caliber–.45 ACP, .40 S&W, .357Sig, 9mmP (although the latter is not technically “major” in IPSC terms)–and purchase a good quality, modern handgun. I like the 1911 (and similarly JM Browning-designed Hi-Power), but it’s probably not the best platform for a neophyte; I tend to prefer the Sig-Sauer and H&K guns, though there are other excellent choices as well from Beretta, Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Walther, Glock, et cetera. I’d avoid off-brands just because the quality can be more spotty, and don’t believe much that you read in gun rags, which are in the business of selling gun ads, not posting unbiased reviews. Since it’s to be a home gun, I’d opt for the heaviest gun you can handle rather than some little subcompact like a Kahr or Baby Glock.

One other point of note; I wouldn’t go around, even jokingly, posting comments like “I wanna shoot a [s]tranger”; should you ever be so unfortunate as to actually have to use a firearm in a defensive situation, your comments (which are in a permanent record of sorts) can be taken out of context and used against you in both criminal and civil court. I doubt it would turn a case of legitimate self-defense into criminal manslaugter, but it certainly could alter the opinion of a jury in a civil trial in favor of the plantiff. Just a friendly reminder.

Good luck to you.

Stranger

16

See, that’s what I thought. But I don’t know much about guns, so I am just going by what you people said. I always agree when it comes to guns. But I really shouldn’t. I have zero practical knowledge - well, I have held a gun a couple of times - but I do have plenty of book knowledge.

Thanks, Gabe. :slight_smile:

17

A note about “Gauge”: X Gauge is the diameter of a lead ball such that X of these balls weigh one pound.

There is a 10 Gauge, and I vaguely recall an 8 Gauge, but probably the most potent shotgun round currently available is the three inch, 12Ga magnum .

Be very certain that you know the nature of the shotgun design, and limitations on round and design.

For example, the minimally built shotgun will basically handle the 2" 12Ga round. Stouter firearms may handle the 2 3/4 " and 3" magnum rounds.

Additionally, sometimes a barrel will be choked. If this is the case then do not fire slugs through the weapon. Choking a barrel invovles some progressive narrowing that aids in tightening the spread pattern of the shot.

20Ga or 16Ga is also good.

Having said that, if you’re operating indoors, a pistol may be better at use in restricted areas, hallways, closets, corners and the like. The standard shotgun can easily exceed 2.5’ in length, and sufficiently short shotguns are ATF Class III weapons.

In tight quarters, a pistol is better if you have trained up on one.

As noted earlier, rifles are not suitable for indoor use.

And if you are using a pistol, consider the rounds that you use for defense loads. Consider special rounds like Glaser Safety Slugs, Hydrashoks, and the like. Or your basic hollowpoints. The idea is to control penetration while not sacrificing power.

And forget this nonsense about “warning shots” or “wounding shots”. If you must fire, shoot to hit, shoot to incapacitate/kill, and don’t empty the magazine into the bad guy.

And forget head shots, ankle shots, wrist shots, shoot-the-bad-guy’s-gun shots. Think about center-of-mass shots: aim for the center of the torso. Unless you know that the bad guy is wearing armor, in which case a head shot is in order. Then again, the value of things like .45ACP and 12Ga is that the munition doesn’t need to penetrate: impact does the trick.

18

Actually, there are 3 1/2" 12 Gauge shells - the the Remington 870 Express Super Magnum is chambered for this. And lets not forget the 4 Gauge, which you probably would not need unless a Rhino broke into your apartment to put out a fire.

19

I’ve heard the opposite: that a shotgun is NOT a good defense weapon because it is far too easy to grab the barrel and take the weapon away, especially if the victim hesitates to fire as the attacker moves toward them.

I use a revolver for home self-defense–a Ruger 357 Magnum–and I’m very content with it.

20

I’d always heard that a shotgun is best, and as someone above said, they do have an intimidation factor that might mean you’d get away with pointing without having to shoot*. A rifle is not as good, because they’re made for distance, and a high-powered rifle’s bullet could easily end up in another house.

Sounds like the 1911 is the gun for you, though you might want to give it another go-round before making the decision.

For those wanting information on ammunition, I found this site to be quite informative and easy to understand.

I’m looking into handguns whenever I save up the money. I plan to hit a local indoor range/store and test theirs to find out what would be best for me (I have small hands).

*Never draw a gun on a person if you aren’t willing to pull the trigger, and never pull the trigger without accepting that you very well might kill them. You don’t draw to threaten and don’t aim to wound, but that doesn’t mean you absolutely must pull the trigger.