That’s the problem I suppose, that and the fact that the song is “I will survive”. I agree with all you’re saying, but it feels basically very much a celebration of the individual and not the people. It’s basically look at ME and what I’ve done- the video is the celebration of the individual, not so much the triumph of the human spirit or such- hence my comment more power to him vs. yay anti-nazis!
That’s why I wish the video was more about various holocaust survivors, rather than one survivor and basically his family. This is very much a celebratory video, but not for everyone. More for this guy managing to survive and do so well.
Also, I’m not really getting the whole “Fuck you Nazi” vibe by basically dancing at the grave site of millions who DIDN’T survive. Sure, one could make the arrangement that by him surviving and dancing, he’s dancing for everyone- but again that doesn’t really come across when you hear the silly song and the kids dancing in front of the site where thousands and thousands were brutally murdered and tortured. But hell, the man survived, and it’s his choice to dance where he wants to. I don’t really have a qualm with the video being made, just that it’s not my cup of tea.
Though I wonder if this’ll spawn another meme- maybe have another group of kids go out to the WTC site, and start dancing to “I feel safe in New York City” by AC/DC? Actually, that would be kinda funny. I had a few more but I think that’s an inappropriate tangent for another day. That said, :shrug: It’s just a youtube video, and my opinion means shit, which is fine by me. Again, more power to him, I just didn’t feel all that happy and “Yay, fuck the nazi’s!” by seeing the video. Can’t please everyone.
Edit to add: actually Meyer6 sums it up much better and tactfully than I ever could. So ignore my post, and just go with a “+1” to what he said up there.
The “fuck you nazis” vibe is what I said in the OP - this is an expression of that old saying “Living well is the best revenge” The revenge is his survival, his family, and their joy. Revenge = fuck you, living well= joyful dancing with your healthy, happy, beautiful family.
Minor hijack, when I was in Amsterdam, we went to the Anne Frank House. I think the most moving moment was seeing that they have the little brochue thingies in FUCKING HEBREW, you Nazi shits.
My take on it is this: I was dubious about it which I first read about it, but if one - one - survivor of the camps thinks it’s OK, then it’s OK. No-one else’s judgement matters.
It reminds me of something that happened just a few years ago. I am descended from Holocaust survivors myself. My grandmother was celebrating her 100th birthday in Montreal. There was a big family celebration. Most of her descendants were there. At the time, that meant 3 children, 9 grandchildren, and 19 great-grandchildren.
My uncle gave a toast. I remember one line in particular: “Look around this room and you’ll see how none of this would have come about if <grandma> hadn’t survived.”
Groucho Marx reputedly danced the Charleston for two minutes on the site of Hitler’s bunker, so it’s not like this is unprecedented. I can definitely identify with the sentiment behind it.
“I Will Survive”, however? C’mon, they could have done much better than that. A lively hora with a live klezmer band - now that would have worked nicely.
I don’t think there’s any controversy about dancing, spitting, or peeing on Hitler’s grave. No one cares about disrespecting him. It’s the other victims that died in these places that need respect; that’s what’s causing the iffyness.
That is reminiscent of Hitler dancing at the surrender of France, which is a somewhat different vibe. And dancing where Hitler killed himself is one thing; dancing where millions were murdered is something else.
I was thinking of a different tune, but yours works too.
I’m aware of that. I was merely stating that this fellow is not the first Jew to have danced in ecstatic defiance on a site expressly linked with the history of the Nazis.
I actually don’t have a problem with a Holocaust survivor standing before the walls of Auschwitz dancing to reflect the joy of life, using his actions to say “I am still here and you are not, you absolute disgrace to humanity”. And I feel that it could be done in the name of all who died there - not only Jews, but Romani, gays and lesbians, the mentally and physically disabled, Socialists and Communists - as a gesture of solidarity and respect. But using a disco hit from the '70s doesn’t convey the right feeling; in fact it’s almost historically ignorant. Better, as I said, to use something from the culture that Hitler tried to eradicate - a traditional dance to a klezmer band. Wouldn’t have killed the kids to take the time to learn a few steps.
I agree that this is the strongest message of the video. I feel a bit weird and uncomfortable that so many non-Jewish non-Europeans on the board are criticizing a Holocaust survivor and his Jewish family for the way he expresses this. “Hey, you, Abie Leibowitz, you’re not doing the Holocaust right, didn’t you get the memo? You’re supposed to be sombre and respectful, and tell those snot-nosed grandkids of yours to sit down and stop smiling all the damn time.”
By this logic, any actions, if done or expressed by a Holocaust survivor, are beyond even commentary by others?
To the contrary: the whole point, in my view, of having Holocaust museums, memorials, documentaries, and camp tours is to enable all of us, all of humanity, to understand and absorb the horror of what was done to European Jewry in the 1930s and 1940s. It asks – no, it DEMANDS – of all of us to never forget what so-called humans are capable of doing to their own species.
I said, above:
And I stand by both statements. You cannot tell me I can’t so much as express an opinion about how the issue is treated.
I sent the link to a friend of mine yesterday. He’s descended from Survivors, and he absolutely loved it. I can see how some might not like the video, but I like it.
A car crash is different. It has no purpose. Surviving a car crash doesn’t prove anything.
The holocaust had a purpose. One person’s survival proves that the holocaust was unsuccessful. But survival alone is not enough.
Another aspect of the holocaust is the fear that the event might have a lasting impact in its aftermath. That’s why there is still a battle against the holocaust 60 years later. That battle is won by living well, being successful, and maintaining strong ties with your family. All the things that the holocaust could have destroyed even after after it was over.
One person’s survival with an extended family, spirit in tack, shows that the holocaust did not win 60 years ago and it’s still losing today. Dancing to “I will Survive” at Auschwitz is just one brilliant way of saying that.
I think that other survivors and their descendants would be happy to know that the holocaust failed to claim the spirit of at least one other person.
However, there will always be people who don’t appreciate silliness and won’t understand how silliness can show that someone is happy. They will instead interpret it as rudeness. It doesn’t matter what the context, some people just don’t like silliness.