Scylla, I think I understand your point, and think it was very well explained. That said, why are you so worried about the “lunatic fringe” on the left instead of that fringe on the right? It seems to me that we are much more likely headed to the facist side of the spectrum than the communist one. We literally have Nazis holding rallies in the streets.
My real fear is totalitarianism. It doesn’t matter if it’s from the right or the left, either is horrible. I think we agree on this. In this political climate, which do you think is more likely, left or right totalitarianism? Your post seems to indicate that “constructivism, identity politics, and intersectionality” are leading us to the left fringe. Constructivism is a new one to me, and I’m not sure what you mean by it. I agree identity politics is dangerous, but it’s certainly not exclusive to the left. Identity politics is one reason we have Trump, after all.
Intersectionality? Really? The way I understand intersectionality in the current political mindset of the left is the opposite of what you are asserting. It has become a buzzword and conservative talking point, much like social justice warrior, but it’s the same false appropriation of valid concepts like “fake news”. Both intersectionality and social justice seem to me to be positive things, seeking inclusiveness. I understand that intersectionality has some Marxist undertones, but that’s not how I see it used now on the left. Your assertion that we are headed toward communism is reliant on an argument that the left is being exclusionary, but what I see is further and further inclusiveness.
Compare that to the right. Can you really argue that the right is seeking to be more inclusive?
The right is increasingly claiming victimhood. You say that communists attack free speech, and that the left is guilty of this, but the only real examples I can think of this actually happening are when some speakers were shouted down or excluded from speaking at colleges. These were self-espoused white supremacists. Many of them were also recently banned from social network sites like Facebook and Twitter, and the right rallied around their right to “free speech”, so maybe this qualifies too. This isn’t communism, or virtue signaling, or an alarming trend for leftist group-think. This is society deciding they don’t need to tolerate hate. Again, this is the opposite of what you fear. It isn’t ostracizing those with more “free” views, it’s deciding we don’t want those who view oppression as acceptable to be accepted as normal.
I had an Libertarian acquaintance who shared some of your views that the State shouldn’t be (or at least should severely limit) regulating things like civil rights. His argument, as you’ve also put forward, is that public shaming would help cause those who cared about whatever issue (sexual orientation, race, gender, etc.) to choose not to do business with a bigot. If public shaming, or rather informed capitalism, is such a good thing, why is it bad when applied to speech?
You see evil from the left. I find that ironic, and a little sad. I don’t think you’re a bad person based on your posts in this thread, but you ask those on the left to try to put themselves in the mindset of those on the right and understand where they are coming from. Have you done the same yourself? Do you understand where the left is coming from? If you’re being fair, do you really think that the majority on the left really want communism, or do they just want a just society and prosperity for all?
As for the OP, there are “better conservatives” out there. I count some of my friends and family among them. Most hate Trump almost as much as I do, but some are supporters, or really, more apologists because they always have a “but”. I think it’s fair to them to say that they all have some view I find abhorrent, but they are good people, and have what they view as valid reasons for being conservative. I have absolutely no sympathy for any Trump support, but the conclusion I’ve come to is that the “good” ones are either ignorant of who he really is, or are willing to just look the other way because they subscribe to one or more of the conservative platform ideas.
It’s really disheartening at this point, but I bet if I were personal friends with every Republican member of congress I would attest that some, or even most, loved this country and wanted the best for it. I also understand that they are fucked by the 30% or whatever of the base that wants fascism. They’ll lose their seats and power if they so much as buck the system once. I think they are shit people because they could band together and fix this. They could have done it prior to Trump being elected. That’s a collective thing, though, and each is out for themselves. It makes them shit as a collective, and individually for being collaborators, but the GOP is the real evil.
But also, I have to say, McConnell is a shit human all by himself.
This is the disgusting, fucked up, fascist attitude that’s ruining this country. This is what convinces the left that there are no good Republicans. I’ve been watching the West Wing recently just to remind myself that back in the early 2000s we respected the office of the President. One of the running themes of that show is that politicians would put the country ahead of themselves if necessary. The first job of an elected politician isn’t to fucking win. They were elected to represent their constituents. That’s their first and only job. If they lose then the electorate decided someone else would do it better. It should never be about them personally, although we all realize the system isn’t perfect and they’ll fight for their own power, but that’s a weakness in the system, not a feature. Jesus fuck, if this “the first job of a politician is to win” mindset if prevalent on the right, then they deserve to be discounted as ignorant about how a democracy works. That’s how totalitarianism works.
I don’t think anyone has really taken you up on the challenge of trying to express the conservative viewpoint in a way that they would agree with. That’s probably because the other posters sensed it was a gotcha trap that you finally revealed in the above “constructivism, identity politics, and intersectionality” post. You seem to want leftists to acknowledge that advocating for the rights of the disadvantaged, and shouting down those who disagree, is uniting the right. Very well, I admit this is true and should be very concerning to the right. These circumstances, with the proletariat rising up, have historically led to violent revolution that should scare the ruling class. It’s not going to happen in this country unless the oligarchs completely take over first, though, but I can understand that they’re afraid.
Now, I don’t think that’s what you meant, and I admit that it’s a strawman I set up, mostly because I wanted to rage against oligarchs. I get the impression from this thread that you are one of the “better conservatives” willing to post on this board because you are willing to debate the real issues, unlike the usual group of rightist partisan trolls like Steophan.
Do you think these items are valid representations of current conservative thinking, that they would agree with?
- I pay too much in taxes. I worked hard for my money, but the government is taking more than they should. I pay so much between income taxes, social security, FICA, and then sales taxes on top of that. What are they using all my money for?
1a) I know my employer also pays some extra taxes which is decreasing my income. If I really think about it, everything I buy was also taxed. The company that made the product I purchases was taxed on profits, and everyone’s income who worked to make this product was also taxed. It’s amazing we have any money at all. We need massive tax reform. If the corporations didn’t have to pay such obscene taxes things would be cheaper and the workers (and I) would make more.
1b) The left just spends and spends. They will build bridges to nowhere, and give money to people who refuse to work. If we could cut down on government waste, my taxes would be a lot lower.
- The government let all the jobs go overseas. How am I supposed to get a job and make ends meet when I’m competing with some guy in India or China? They’ll work for nothing, but I have kids and a mortgage. I pay my taxes. Why is the government letting this happen to me?
2a) My industry is important (coal mining, farming, oil, steel). The other countries are subsiding and dumping their products to undermine us. They shouldn’t be allowed to do that. Globalism is hurting me directly, and people don’t understand that.
- The left wants to marginalize my religion, which is fundamental to my way of life. We are a Christian Nation, but they don’t recognize that. They do things like ban prayer and want us to ignore that Christmas is a Christian Holiday. Why is this so important to them unless they have an anti-Christian agenda?
3b) My religion teaches me that homosexuality is a sin. I mean, it’s disgusting, but some people choose to do it. Fine, “love the sinner and hate the sin”, but why do they demand that they be allowed to get married, and why should we forced to legitimize their choice?
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We’re killing babies in this country. Literally killing babies. How is this happening, and why is it legal?
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The left wants outlaw private gun ownership, despite the 2nd amendment. Nancy Pelosi wants to institute a complete ban, and confiscate our guns.* It’s my right to own a gun, for both functional and recreational uses. Hunting is good for the environment, and how will I do that without guns? How should I protect my home from both human and animal predators? Guns have been necessary and normal in the US for so long, why doesn’t the left understand their utility? They don’t understand what life in rural America is really like.
- I don’t think she’s actually stated that, but many believe it.
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Being a mid-america, small town resident used to be a positive thing. People watched Andy Griffith and wished they lived in Mayberry. Now the left calls us “fly-over country”, and all the while our towns are dying and our kids are addicted to drugs. The left has forgotten about us. At least the right understands that it’s not just the big cities that have problems, but we do too.
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When I go into McDonalds all the staff are speaking Spanish. Where is my son supposed to work when he’s 16 and needs his first job? He doesn’t speak Spanish. They might be illegal, or maybe not, but they could at least learn the language.
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There are many foreigners, mostly Arabs, who seek to harm the US by any means possible. It just makes sense to vet some people more thoroughly than others. Coming to this country is a privilege, not a right.
I think many of these are issues are understandable, and some might be valid. I could probably come up with more. I went ahead and listed them to show that many of us on the left have thought about them, even from the right’s perspective. Notice I didn’t list anything about intersectionality. I could have, but I wouldn’t know how to phrase it in a way that was neutral. It would have been something like, “I’m afraid my white male privilege is being diluted.” The above listed items I can at least understand, even if I disagree and could rebut most of them. Being scared that one might be accused of rape, or that one might be shouted down for being a white supremacist, not so much.