Better Conservatives? Where?! (A response to Coffeecat)

[Kearsen]

@Budget_Player_Cadet

“Waaah! The mean liberal said the fact I voted for and support a dangerous incompetent idiot makes me look bad! I know what to do - I’ll double down on my support for said dangerous, incompetent idiot!”

:rolleyes:

Leaving aside that this thread is not about extending an olive branch (should be obvious from literally everything about it), and instead is trying to disillusion some folks… Well okay, wiseass, how do you get people doing a stupid harmful shitty thing to stop doing that harmful shitty thing without making them feel bad about it?

Actually, answer that one after you answer my previous question about non-fucking-terrible Trump supporters and where to find them. And if you can’t… Please, just fuck off. This kind of bullshit tone policing was old in 2016; After three goddamn years of this country being The Donald Trump Show, it’s actively rage-inducing.

I think conflating Republicans with Donald Trump et al isn’t the correct way to go about vilifying 50% of Americans. There are quite a lot of Republicans that do not support everything Donald Trump stands for or does. In fact , I’d bet the majority of the Republicans on this board probably think he is an idiot. But, get this, they are still Republicans because they agree with more of that platform than the platform of the Democrats.

I am one.

[AnthonyElite]

@Stranger_On_A_Train

You don’t have to be in the “Saint Hilary[sic] camp” to recognize that whatever deficiencies and actual scandals Hillary Clinton may have carried in her baggage, they are nothing compared to Trump, who has lied, scammed, bullied, threatened, and defrauded thousands of people from contractors to the students of his “Trump University”, notwithstanding his utter lack of or knowledge about governance and his supposed business prowess in running oceanfront casinos into the ground. The only way you can even make that kind of equivalency is by uncritically accepting every unsubstantiated, wild-ass conspiracy theory about the Clintons combined with willful blindness about Trump’s past and the incoherence of his policies, such as they are.

The Democratic party has and continues to make numerous errors and is hamstrung by its own blind obedience to its traditional hierarchy, including running a candidate who was so legendarily unpopular she barely won the non-superdelegate votes in the primary against Vermont Larry David and was defeated in the Electoral College by a draft-dodging confidence artist and self-described serial pussy groper. But that doesn’t make the two parties equivalent in ethical vacuousness and moral turpitude. One party, at least, has not uniformly seconded itself to an organization dedicated to blocking every measure to address firearm-related violence funded in part by an unfriendly foreign adversary, or set itself to the stated task of blocking every initiative to the point of repeatedly shutting down the government like a three year old having a tantrum.

Stranger

I mean…obviously the Repub side believes a lot of the things proposed against Hillary. I know it may seem bizarre but this country isn’t immune to terrible scandal.

I’m not personally a fan of Trump though I think some of his actions have had merit. I do slightly lean towards him being a better President than Hillary would have been but we will never know. The Democrats could have picked a LOT of people to elect and I would have voted Democrat.

[AnthonyElite]

@Kearsen

I think conflating Republicans with Donald Trump et al isn’t the correct way to go about vilifying 50% of Americans. There are quite a lot of Republicans that do not support everything Donald Trump stands for or does. In fact , I’d bet the majority of the Republicans on this board probably think he is an idiot. But, get this, they are still Republicans because they agree with more of that platform than the platform of the Democrats.

I am one.

Exactly this.

[Czarcasm]

@Kearsen

I am one.

Yeah, you are one, just like all the other ones that believe the ends justify the means.

[AnthonyElite]

@iiandyiiii

In my experience most racists either don’t know they’re racist or keep it secret. Chances are, you know a lot of racists that just haven’t let that part of themselves show. And, of course, there are lots of racists in both parties. It’s just that one of those parties has a leader right now that has unapologetically said many racist things, praised racists, and much more, without any significant sanction from others in his party.

That comes partially with how you define racism as well. I see many of the actions on the part of Democrats as racist. They tend to treat minorities as incapable.

Also I can’t just assume people are racist because they are white and old. I judge people on actions - I don’t try to mind-read.

[madmonk28]

Look at Trump’s rally yesterday. This is the president of the United States mocking and mimicking a Dr. Ford. His crowd is loving it, they are laughing and clapping. This isn’t some fringe group, this is the president and his Republican voters delighting in the degradation of a woman. How can anyone be a part of this and consider yourself a good person?

[Ravenman]

@AnthonyElite

I’m saying Republicans don’t post here because every single thing said will be examined in the worst possible light and since they aren’t the majority here the crowd will be against them and therefore even if they are right they would be deemed wrong.

To phrase this question differently: What benefit would any republican have in posting here? They go off to their own echo chambers as you live in your own echo chamber.

Though knowing the Straightdope mentality you folks assume only other people can make logical fallacies and you’d never be guilty of any yourself.

The board in total is guilty of what any echo chamber would be - assuming the other side has no rational good points. Assuming that there is no middle ground. So why bother when you have already made up your mind? No well-made point would change you anyway. I’d rather lurk the non-politics threads where I can continue to interact with you treating you as humans and me as human because we are likely all good people. It’s unfortunate that it is that way but also true.

You seem like the sort of person who should be posting in political threads. Does it really bother you when total strangers think ill of you because of things you’ve written?

[iiandyiiii]

@AnthonyElite

That comes partially with how you define racism as well. I see many of the actions on the part of Democrats as racist. They tend to treat minorities as incapable.

I’m not aware of any Democrats in office who do this. Do you mean things like affirmative action? If so, then you’re misunderstanding the Democratic argument for that position. It’s not that minorities are incapable – far from it. It’s that society is profoundly tilted away from people in certain categories, and in order to give them anything close to a fair shot when they have equal or superior ability, we must institute policies like AA. Without AA, proponents will argue, black and brown people with superior capability will have a significantly lower chance at getting anything close to a fair chance to succeed.

Also I can’t just assume people are racist because they are white and old. I judge people on actions - I don’t try to mind-read.

I judge actions and words. This President, and many Republicans in office, have said profoundly racist things.

[Czarcasm]

@AnthonyElite

I mean…obviously the Repub side believes a lot of the things proposed against Hillary. I know it may seem bizarre but this country isn’t immune to terrible scandal.

I’m not personally a fan of Trump though I think some of his actions have had merit. I do slightly lean towards him being a better President than Hillary would have been but we will never know. The Democrats could have picked a LOT of people to elect and I would have voted Democrat.

Remember “LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP!”? You can pretend that this was short for “After she goes to trial, and if she is convicted, she should be locked up!”, but we know this was just a cry to put political opponents in prison…and we know this is fact now because at the most recent Trump rally, where he was doing his best to publicly humiliate Christine Blasey Ford, they were chanting the same thing about her and your shitheel president was leading them on.

[AnthonyElite]

@Czarcasm

Remember “LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP!”? You can pretend that this was short for “After she goes to trial, and if she is convicted, she should be locked up!”, but we know this was just a cry to put political opponents in prison…and we know this is fact now because at the most recent Trump rally, where he was doing his best to publicly humiliate Christine Blasey Ford, they were chanting the same thing about her and your shitheel president was leading them on.

No, most republicans took that to mean process her in court. I’m sorry you think otherwise but I think you are wrong. I’m NOT interested in a society that condemns before fair trial.

I don’t know if Ford’s allegations are true. I don’t think it is right to mock victims.

If, and I know it’s impossible to prove at this point so it won’t and shouldn’t happen, but if it turned out that Ford’s accusations were false and had political intent I absolutely believe she should face prison time. It’s nearly impossible to tell though.

[AnthonyElite]

@Ravenman

You seem like the sort of person who should be posting in political threads. Does it really bother you when total strangers think ill of you because of things you’ve written?

Of course it does - I’m not psychotic - even with the anonymity of the internet we prefer strangers to view us favorably, no?

[Czarcasm]

@AnthonyElite

No, most republicans took that to mean process her in court. I’m sorry you think otherwise but I think you are wrong. I’m NOT interested in a society that condemns before fair trial.

I don’t know if Ford’s allegations are true. I don’t think it is right to mock victims.

If, and I know it’s impossible to prove at this point so it won’t and shouldn’t happen, but if it turned out that Ford’s accusations were false and had political intent I absolutely believe she should face prison time. It’s nearly impossible to tell though.

Since this is the BBQ Pit you can serve up all the bullshit you want…but you don’t get to pretend to be butthurt if we decide to tell you what we think of it. Your first line was Grade A Kobe Quality bullshit.

[AnthonyElite]

@Czarcasm

Since this is the BBQ Pit you can serve up all the bullshit you want…but you don’t get to pretend to be butthurt if we decide to tell you what we think of it. Your first line was Grade A Kobe Quality bullshit.

You’re incorrect and your vitriol will get you nowhere.

You can’t assume I’m a decent person - I get that.

But at least assume I’m logical enough to realize if I support locking up someone who isn’t guilty I might be the next person locked up. So if you’re so cynical then have the wit to assume I’m self serving enough not to want that door opened lest I get thrown in.

[Czarcasm]

@AnthonyElite

You’re incorrect and your vitriol will get you nowhere.

You can’t assume I’m a decent person - I get that.

But at least assume I’m logical enough to realize if I support locking up someone who isn’t guilty I might be the next person locked up. So if you’re so cynical then have the wit to assume I’m self serving enough not to want that door opened lest I get thrown in.

Try to keep you bullshit straight from one post to the next, at least. You didn’t make it a personal claim-you said “most Republicans”. We saw and heard those rallies. We saw and heard the hatred. We saw and heard President Shitheel leading them on.

[AnthonyElite]

@Czarcasm

Try to keep you bullshit straight from one post to the next, at least. You didn’t make it a personal claim-you said “most Republicans”. We saw and heard those rallies. We saw and heard the hatred. We saw and heard President Shitheel leading them on.

Great - continue to lose while you live in your bubble.

Again - MOST REPUBLICANS think Hillary is guilty and want to see her get her day in trial. Sure there are some that want her locked up no matter what. That isn’t the majority. If you think it is then it must be terribly stressful for you just stepping outside to get a cup of coffee with all these demons running around. Or, OR it’s a childish notion to think most adults are evil.

[iiandyiiii]

@AnthonyElite

Great - continue to lose while you live in your bubble.

Again - MOST REPUBLICANS think Hillary is guilty and want to see her get her day in trial. Sure there are some that want her locked up no matter what. That isn’t the majority. If you think it is then it must be terribly stressful for you just stepping outside to get a cup of coffee with all these demons running around. Or, OR it’s a childish notion to think most adults are evil.

Polls show that a majority of Republicans would support Kavanaugh even if he’s guilty of attempted rape and lying about it. I don’t know if everyone with that position is evil, but it’s reasonable to call that a morally reprehensible position.

[madmonk28]

@AnthonyElite

Great - continue to lose while you live in your bubble.

Again - MOST REPUBLICANS think Hillary is guilty …

Of what?

[AnthonyElite]

@iiandyiiii

Polls show that a majority of Republicans would support Kavanaugh even if he’s guilty of attempted rape and lying about it. I don’t know if everyone with that position is evil, but it’s reasonable to call that a morally reprehensible position.

Of course you don’t need to provide one in the Pit but do you have a cite for that?

[Railer13]

@AnthonyElite

Of course you don’t need to provide one in the Pit but do you have a cite for that?

Here’s one.

[AnthonyElite]

@Railer13

Here’s one.

Huh - I wonder what the rational on that is? It’s hard to articulate why I think this but I think sexual assault just seems like the kind of crime to me where there likely not repentant or redeemable.

I also wonder how good the sampling was on that.