And, really, THIS. It’s not enough to not actually be a white supremacist, religious fanatic, abusive boss, or polluter; you should be able to realize that if your logic is leading you to the same places their logic is leading them to, something is very wrong.
Oh yeah, meant to comment on that. If you think “half the country” prefers Trump, you’re not looking at the same polls I am. Mine say that52% of the country disapproves of him as against only 42% approval, and that “the left” is highly likely to win the midterm elections by a wide margin.
I would like to correct my statement above that most GOP voters are not capable of informed, rational thought. Rather, I would say that they are people who have not had the opportunity or inclination to apply that capacity to the political arena, and have absorbed the prevailing attitudes in their social milieu by default.
OK, was going to stop spamming this thread for a while but just saw this and couldn’t resist:
If that’s the hill you’d like your party to die on, be my guest.
The current SCOTUS nomination battle has shifted the tide in favor of Republican candidates in the upcoming midterms. Kavanaugh saga a surprising bonus for Republicans
Not at all. If that was the entirety of your point, I never would have bothered with it. Maybe a throw away about how you can’t separate money and capitalism from societal views, but it wouldn’t have been worth it.
But that’s not precisely what you said and meant. At least in your first few posts. I’ve explained numerous times, using your very own words and explaining how I interpreted, and still interpret them. If the entirety of your meaning from our posting is those two things, great. I’m completely flummoxed why you said what you did if that’s what you meant, but hey, there you go.
I’m not stuck. I know how capitalism works, and how the government isn’t always the best solution. Got it.
But, again, that’s not what I took away from your posts. You consistently bemoaned the actions against the bigoted cake maker, and indicated, quite clearly I thought, that the government shouldn’t be involved and that the market would eventually weed his kind out. You seemed to bolster that thought by pointing out that Jim Crow laws were “targeted” at businesses, as if the laws were there to stop nice white folks from selling to black people and thus interfering with the invisible hand of capitalism.
If you are now telling me that wasn’t your point, and instead you were just pointing out capitalism and governmental intervention can be both good and bad… Great. Extremely stupid point that is not really in contention, but hey, you do you.
Of course he did. As I told my mother before she passed, I believe Trump is actually a Nazi. He’s certainly a white supremacist, a misogynist, and a bigot.
Oh, I used the singular, color, as opposed to the plural, colors, for a reason.
The actual conservatives and Republicans I know who don’t support Trump but who still support the party and conservatism (whatever that means to each individual…it varies as to the type of conservative) definitely do so for what you are getting at…regardless of the flaws that are apparent in the party and conservatism, they see the Democrats and definitely the left as worse alternatives. And they feel that the left and progressives are basically in control of the Democrats, or will be shortly after the Democratic civil wars are over. It’s unclear to me if they have valid concerns or if this is just their fear talking, but they definitely have them. It’s something often overlooked on this board, which leans left…that there are people who really are afraid of or who reject a lot of what the left wing thinks of as rock solid truths.
Your linked article is a bunch of right-wing hacks repeating talking points and a few cherry-picked polls. On average, the polls have shown a consistent 8-10 point advantage for Democrats since last spring, It appears that it has fallen from 9.1% a couple weeks ago all the way to 8.7% today. By that standard, the “tide has turned” innumerable times in favor of both sides, but it never seems to get out of that 8-10% range by much or for long.
In addition, polls show a plurality of Americans don’t want Kavanaugh confirmed and are more likely to vote against than for a candidate who supports him. So it seems unlikely to attribute even this trivial shift toward the Republicans to the SCOTUS hearings.
I wouldn’t say 2% is a significant amount. And that’s why I don’t’ worry about it. And in the small chance that my son is falsely accused, there’s an even SMALLER chance that he will get in trouble or have his life ruined.
Which is why I don’t worry about it.
Well, yeah. I and millions of other people are afraid of and reject what they think of as rock solid truths. So? If no one rejected these “truths”, they wouldn’t be, like, politically controversial. I mean, I get the argument that leftists unfairly attribute nefarious motives to those who disagree with us, but you’re saying we’re unaware of their existence?
I mean, we did notice the last election result and all.
This is the first time I’ve encountered this idea that “the left” will soon control the Democrats after the “civil war”. Wouldn’t people who fear this have been especially eager to support Hillary Clinton in order to avoid giving oxygen to the Sanders crowd? And yet somehow I doubt they were.
Harumph. Yet another supported factual assertion from a conservative. Why am I supposed to take your word on it?1?
Also to XT, above:
Your whole post is extremely vague. Can you give examples of things these people you know fear “the left” will do once in power, so we can evaluate whether those fears are realistic or justified?
The ones I’ve talked with indicate that, if the Democrats come into power they will:
- Increase taxes.
- Put Justices on the Supreme Court who will make stuff up and not be good, neutral judges like Republican judges are.
- Restrict Gun rights.
- Waste more governmental money giving handouts to lazy people in order to gain votes.
- Expand abortion rights.
Those are the big 5 I hear when talking to rational conservatives.
The half number wasn’t “people that prefer Trump”, it was Republicans
I would say you are pretty close.
I’d add one thing: People of both stripes are passionate about certain issues. On these issues they will not bend. Those are the reasons that most Republicans are Republican and Democrats are Democrats
If those passionate issues cannot be found to have any middle ground then you get to where we are now, with EVERYTHING being a political battle.
Even in my post I listed 6 or 7 issues, the top 3 being items I am passionate about and the others that while I agree with some of the Democratic platform would never fall in line with my other, more important to me, passionately held issues.
Pretty much this. Plus I’d add more entitlements like ‘free’ healthcare, ‘free’ education/college and the like. It varies with what type of conservative we are talking about. Social conservatives worry about gay marriage/gay rights and activist judges forcing through more and more equality wrt that stuff. Fiscal conservatives worry about expansion of government entitlements and spending, increased taxes on the wealthy and the like. Other types of conservatives worry about the left wing taking the US socialist, or banning all guns or myriad other things along those lines.
You haven’t heard anything about the battle between progressives and establishment in the Democratic party? I hear about it endlessly in some of the circles I run in.
This is why:
And bigots, let’s not forget bigots.
Your stance is “what’s the big deal about moving to the back of the bus.” You don’t understand why, and I can’t make you understand why, because it’s about basic human decency, not riding a fucking bus.
OK, well:
- Isn’t inherently good or bad, it depends on how wisely the taxes are spent.
- :rolleyes:
- Well, yeah, if any restriction of gun rights whatsoever (beyond the status quo) is completely unacceptable to you, then there you go. But what I typically hear isn’t that, it’s that Democrats want to “ban guns”, and quite commonly that the things Democrats actually do want to do are only steps in their nefarious secret plan to ban guns. So yeah, if you assume that your opponents have nefarious secret plans which contradict their expressed beliefs, you can justify pretty much anything.
- :rolleyes:
- This is a good thing.
So, three reasons which are just obvious BS and two issues which IMO shouldn’t be deal-breakers for reasonable people.