I’m starting this thread in GQ because I’m looking for factual answers.
As many people have pointed out in other threads, there are many wrongdoings that are often excused by quoting the Bible. Racism, sexism, homophobia, murder, slavery, and a host of others. And there are also many “modern” crimes that, although they were impossible for a biblical person to commit . . . like flying airplanes into skyscrapers . . . they still fall into a biblical-era category . . . like “murder.”
So what I’m wondering is: Are there any crimes or wrongdoings that ***cannot ***be excused by quoting the Bible?
Well of course not, just as there are crimes or wrongdoings that cannot be excused by quoting “The Lord of the Rings” or “The Adventures of Winnie the Pooh”. If someone wants to justify something they can always find a way to justify it, and if they need to justify it according to a book then they can always find a way to justify it according to that book.
The only real question is whether that justification is logical, rational and in keeping with the intention of the book’s authors. But once you remove that standard thenof course anything can be justified.
To take an extreme example, Jesus said very explicitely that his followers were not to refer to other humans as “Father”. So what does the largest Christian sect do routinely? But they manage to justify that despite the fact that it is in direct contradiction to what their leader said. And if you can justify flat out disobeying a direct order then it’s simplicity itself to justify things aren’t specifically forbidden.
So of course there’s nothing that can’t be justified. Just realise that the same things can be justified using any other material in the world. People are devious, rationalising bastards.
I was under the impression that the only unforgivable sin was rejection of Jesus/Holy Spirit, so presumably everything else is if not approved at least forgivable if you’re really really sorry. Unless you get mauled by bears first.
I recall some passage or other in the Bible where the Hebrew men were instructed to lie in wait for maidens of another tribe to come down to bathe? Get water? I disremember. At any rate, it was OK for the Hebrews to capture and rape these maidens and make them their wives.
In fact, rape is generally OK, if it’s against women of another tribe, and done with the intent to make her a wife or concubine of a good Hebrew man, so that he can have kids, or more kids.
Does the Bible have anything to say about drugtaking that* isn’t* specifically about alcohol?
What about insurance fraud? Or does “lying” cover that, do you think? Does the Bible say anything about lying, anyway? Not “bearing false witness”, but fraud in general.
*Howbeit we may not give them wives of our daughters: for the children of Israel have sworn, saying, Cursed be he that giveth a wife to Benjamin.
Therefore they commanded the children of Benjamin, saying, Go and lie in wait in the vineyards;
And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin.
And it shall be, when their fathers or their brethren come unto us to complain, that we will say unto them, Be favourable unto them for our sakes: because we reserved not to each man his wife in the war: for ye did not give unto them at this time, that ye should be guilty.
And the children of Benjamin did so, and took them wives, according to their number, of them that danced, whom they caught: and they went and returned unto their inheritance, and repaired the cities, and dwelt in them.*
Deuteronomy 20
*And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.*
Which is why the Benjaminites had no women in the first place. The other Hebrews had murdered all the women who had had sex, and kidnapped and raped all the virgins.
That whole section of Judges is quite disgusting, starting at Judges 19.
Condoning rape, murder, female servitude, kidnap, mutiliation of corpses and most charmingly, buying one’s own safety by offering up one’s virgin daughter to be gang raped and beaten to death.
For some reason this ripping yarn never makes it into Sunday school sessions.
It’s hard to say because no word existed in those days. The word “pharmakon”, can variously be translated as drug use or poisoning or even sorcery. It is listed among the despicable works of the flesh and the means by which men are led astray multiple times in the Bible.
Of course the fact that pleasures of the flesh are specifically frowned upon, and since recreational drug use is the ultimate unproductive, hedonistic pleasure of the flesh, even more so than sex or food, it’s hard to claim that it isn’t verboten. But once again, if someone wants to justify it…
Matthew 5
*Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
*
Hard to argue that any fraud is allowable under that mantle.
The same applies to lying generally. If you say one thing and intend another, that’s seems clearly enough not letting your yes mean yes.
But once again, if someone wants to justify it…
You have to remember that large parts of the Bible are descriptive rather than prescriptive. It’s a much a history book as it is a rules book, and it ofter simply describes events without passing judgment on them.
Remember, it was written and compiled by many people across many years. Some of those people were moralists who felt that everything had to contain some sort of lesson, while others simply saw themselves as chroniclers. The fact that the Bible contains people doing acts we’d consider abhorrent doesn’t mean that it’s condoning them, merely that they happened.
I think you are referring to the legend of the Sabine women. It is part of Roman history. I’m unaware of a similar story in the Bible. The legend of the rape of the Sabine women, was popularized culturally in the Broadway play, Seven Brides for Seven Brothers.
This is more an IMHO answer than a GQ, but still: It seems to me that quoting the line from Vayikra (Leviticus to most of you) 19:18 “You are to love your neighbor as much as yourself” trumps all claims of “But the Bible says I can do this nastiness to you!”
That whole section of Judges is supposed to be disgusting, though. That’s why it starts out, “In those days, Israel didn’t have a king and everyone did what he wanted.”
Always look at who the speaker is, and who he is speaking to. It may well just be an account of what has happened, or even a prediction of what is going to happen, and not an instruction to go do this. Yes that first verse supports that this is a report on what is happening.
I find that crane stance works well when lecturing people how no, the Bible does not support their nastiness. It keeps the other foot free to kick them.
No, I was actually looking for a factual answer. Is there any “sin” that cannot be excused by quoting scripture? I admit, some posters have totally misunderstood this question.
