Biden + anyone has a good chance of resulting in a Trump victory. Biden is Clinton warmed over. They are cut from the same cloth and he is maybe less inspiring than she was.
Biden, the guy who is pals with segregationists and tells a rich audience “nothing would fundamentally change” is who black voters want? Who progressives want?
He is what aging, white boomers on this board want and that is about it.
You said “some god-damn respect”. If you meant listening to the opinions of black people and marginalised people and understanding what they want from a candidate, you should have said that. Am I supposed to read your mind through the Internet and understand that you meant that by “some god-damn respect”?
You can quite well listen to them and understand what they want without putting a black or female candidate on the ticket. Just like you can do the same with poor people without putting a poor person on the ticket. Or handicapped people or religious minorities or the elderly or the sick or any number of people who we should listen to and understand.
…of course you need to give them some god-damn respect. They were bought to your country in chains. They knew what was coming with Trump and they overwhelmingly voted against him at the last election. They are the base of the Democrats. They have always supported whomever the Democrats have run. Why would you not give them your respect?
And part of respect is listening to what they have to say.
Did I say you needed to put a black or female candidate on the ticket?
Strawman.
I hope Warren can just ignore all the shit that Fox and Trump throw at her and stay on topic. We’ll see. It’s early days.
Pete is smart. Really smart. I like how he answers questions, even the questions meant to bait him. He just sort of ignores all the junk and gets to the meat of the question.
No. However, the comment you replied to was my own reply to Flik & Karl talking about how a woman, especially Harris, was needed on the ticket.
I’m Canadian. They brought themselves to my country to escape chains.
Listening is fine. Maybe put several of them in Cabinet posts once the election is won. Make electoral trade-offs to pursue their votes: not in this election.
…the comment I was replying too was this:
Wider context does not help you here. This was a post about the black vote, how you question how “critical” it was and mocking the idea that black people would vote for anyone else than a Democrat.
Canada has **more **than enough problems of its own with indigenous people.
Wow. You’ve done it again. Another completely tone-deaf post. “Just sit this election out marginalised people. The white men have got this locked up, just trust us, we know what we are doing. And when we get elected we will throw a few token jobs your way because that will make us look good.”
Still?
Kamala talks Democratic, but acts Republican.
Is the black vote critical to winning 2020?
Also, they won’t vote for anyone else than a Democrat, so it’s accurate, even if it’s not couched in terms that make you feel good.
Yup. And the fact that I’m Canadian does make your statement that “They were bought to your country in chains.” look a little too eager to get dramatic on Internet. We’re talking about US blacks as they relate to the 2020 election here, aren’t we? You can show that Canada mistreats Injians as much as you want, I’m not sure what that’s gonna change to the 2020 US elections.
and again and again and again. I’m enjoying this. 
If you try to control my tone so that it doesn’t offend your sensibilities, you can be sure I won’t give you satisfaction.
Not sit out, they should contribute to the election and of course vote Democrat, which is what they’ll do anyway because they’re not morons. I don’t know if the white men have this locked up but I think that the white men have the best chance of locking it up. Cabinet posts aren’t token jobs and they shouldn’t be given because if makes the white men look good. There are good reasons for it other than that but my personal favorite is making it clear to the rotten part of US society that their cause is doomed. It’s partly why I like Pete too.
All votes are.
Trump lost the popular vote and won the election with very narrow margins in three states. If it was anyone but Clinton Trump probably would have lost.
Every vote counts. Especially with republican efforts at voter disenfranchisement.
…what do you think?
If it wasn’t for the black vote Roy Moore would probably have probably won. 72% of white men who voted voted for Moore, 63% of white women.
Do you think the Democrats would have a chance if they didn’t have the black vote?
This isn’t about “what makes me feel good.” Its about the fact that if you even want a chance of defeating Trump at the next election then it will probably be the votes of black people that push you over the line. The very least you can do is pay a bit more than lip service to them.
Using the word “Injians” says everything we need to know about your attitude towards indigenous peoples of Canada. This isn’t about the elections. Its about your attitudes towards marginalised people.
No doubt.
I’m not trying to control your fucking tone. I’m letting you know that what you are saying is tone-deaf, because…
…you expect them to contribute, you expect them to vote Democrat, but you don’t want to listen to any misgivings they have over the candidates that you favour. You are taking their vote for granted.
Can you be specific here? Why would white men have the best chance of winning the presidency? What is it about white men that are inherently better than say…black women, or even black men?
They are token jobs if the only reason you are giving them to people is the colour of their skin as a result of “electoral trade-offs.”
Voting more white men into power into a society founded on white supremacy sure is a funny way to show the “rotten part of US society that their cause is doomed.”
You like Pete because, unlike some of the other candidates, Pete is a white man, and therefore more likely to “lock it up?” Am I understanding you correctly?
What does Pete have over Elizabeth Warren, Cory Booker or Kamala Harris?
I should have “is courting the black vote critical in 2020?” I talked about it in terms of courting above so it should be read in that context.
No, it says everything other people need to know about my attitude towards you.
This thread is about the 2020 elections in a forum titled “Elections”. If it were in a forum called “MichaelEmouse’s attitudes towards marginalised people”, then I suppose I’d have to focus on that. If you want to make it about my attitudes towards marginalised people, pit me.
I know quite well what my tone is.
If there are any US blacks who’d like to tell me about their misgivings over Biden and Buttigieg, I’m willing to listen to them right now or in PM, depending on their preference. They may very well enlighten me and I’d be thankful to them for it. I’m not especially interested in your opinion, though.
I don’t think it should be given to them as a result of electoral trade-off. I’m saying it may well be a good idea to give minorities Cabinet posts and that electoral trade-offs shouldn’t be made to court their votes. Win the election by making the ticket as white as Greenland then once you’ve taken the office away from the GOP, one of the things you should focus on is what you can do to help marginalised people.
Not inherently as in in any context, no. In the present US context, yes. A non-white or female candidate would be less likely to appeal to swing voters and more likely to motivate rednecks to vote. It’s a scummy state of affairs but that’s what we’re unfortunately dealing with.
As for why I think white men have the best chance of winning the presidency, their record is 44-to-1.
Partly.
Being a white man is one of the reasons as I’ve explained above but he also has an unusually high combination of smarts and charisma, even for a presidential candidate, which makes him more likely to lock it up than Warren, Booker and Harris. They’re also smart and charismatic but Buttigieg outdoes them (although that part isn’t because he’s a white man). He reminds me of Obama in that way but unfortunately, Obama can’t run. Obama was smart and charismatic enough to make up for the unfair electoral disadvantage of being black but none of the other candidates are like that except Buttigieg who is smart and charismatic enough to make up for the unfair disadvantage of being gay.
Any idea what the gopers have got planned in terms of voter disenfranchisement for 2020?
He is. Are there specific instances where you think he really showed that off? Links to them?
You mean like Abraham Lincoln or Franklin Roosevelt? Yeah, fuck those dead white men. We needed them as much as a fish needs a bicycle. People should have held out instead of working with the situation they were in.
The usual purge of voter rolls, Gerrymandering and closing polls in areas they don’t like.
Their playbook is well known.
Piling on because this is so much fun:
The entire world has been based on white supremacy for the past half millennium.
Who gave women the right to vote, other women or men? Who gave black equal rights, people who were white or black? Who do you think will be instrumental in getting money out of politics, rich or poor people? I’m sure Alanis would love to write a song about this.
…I answered the question as asked.
You called the Indigenous peoples of Canada “Injians” because you’ve got an attitude towards this Indigenous Maori from New Zealand?
That doesn’t make it any less offensive. In fact it makes it slightly worse.
I’ll address your attitudes towards marginalised people in the thread that you expressed your opinion. No need for a pitting.
Your tone is the very same tone that puts people off both Biden and Buttigieg as candidates.
Or you could have read what Marcia Fudge or Karen Bass or Jim Clyburn or Cory Booker or what many of the people who attended Mayor Pete’s terrible town hall said to him on the 24th of June. All of which I’ve already cited in this thread. You don’t need to wait for a private message: especially on a board with such a low-level of black posters such as this one. You would be waiting for a very long time.
It really isn’t that hard to be able to seek out and find black voices. You just have to be ready to listen. I’m not a black voice. But I’m a brown voice. It doesn’t surprise me that you aren’t “interested in my opinion” but it does show what an uphill battle it is for marginalised people to get their voices heard. People like you have no interest in listening.
Why are you convinced that “making the ticket as white as Greenland” is the secret to taking the office away from the GOP?
Not everyone agrees that “the swing vote” is the vote that needs to be focused on.
Your proposed strategy of “making the ticket as white as Greenland” is not a strategy that either represents “the future of the party”, nor does it appeal to the millions of people that turned out for Obama but didn’t turn out for Clinton. Not reaching out to them but instead reaching out for the “swing redneck vote” would be a disaster of epic proportions in my, most humblest of opinions.
Its a self-fulfilling prophecy that you’ve convinced yourself is true. This doesn’t have to be “what we deal with.”
If you only run white men for the presidency you will only ever get white men as president. This number is meaningless. Obama shouldn’t be viewed as “an aberration.”
This says a lot.
This is a terrible reason with faulty logic at its heart.
“Charisma” is subjective. I think he has the charisma of a wet fish. I think that in Dungeons and Dragons he would have rolled an 8, while Warren, Booker and Harris would all have rolled an 18. He doesn’t appeal to me at all. I’ve never seen him deliver anything as close to being as relatable as this. Not only has she won over an audience (which had little tolerance for waffle) but she managed to articulate a complex problem in just a few minutes and provided a solution for that problem as well.
As for “smarts”: the way Buttigieg handled the question here was not very smart at all. He argued early on in his campaign that he didn’t need policy on his website because:
and
This…isn’t very smart. They never rolled out that tool by the way: instead deciding to follow the pack and laid out policy on his website.
I strongly disagree. I think Warren, Booker and Harris have more shown charisma and have more smarts than anything we’ve seen from Mayor Pete. He isn’t even close to the other three in my opinion. When he speaks off-the-cuff he waffles. You can almost literally see him “making stuff up” when he speaks. I think he is a mediocre candidate with very little experience compared to Warren, Booker and Harris. He is the literal embodiment of “white male privilege”: elevated in status over more talented people by virtue of his “maleness” and “the colour of his skin.” And the thing is you aren’t even pretending that this isn’t the reason why you prefer him. Its all out in the open.
LOL. Reminds you of Obama? Do you think Obama would ever say to a black person who is obviously upset and distraught “I don’t need your vote” literally to their face?
…while you are “having fun” I’ll continue to live in a world where you think a mediocre white man deserves a shot at the presidency partly based on the colour of his skin more than extremely talented and experienced women and people of colour.
Yep. And I actually have to live in that world where people treat me differently and people want to kill me simply because of the colour of my skin.
Wow.
Women **fought **for the right to vote. Black people weren’t given “equal rights”: they had to fight tooth and nail and they still don’t have “true equality.”
Are you wanting a thank-you? Do you expect grattitude? Why on earth would you write something as offensive as this?
There’s no reason for anyone to be thankful to me or feel gratitude towards me. I didn’t do any of this. I mean, I like to think I’m a credit to my race (some of my best friends are white!) but there’s no reason for women and non-whites to be thankful to me.
I wrote this to drive the point home that in a world that unfairly gives white men a disproportionate amount of power, those with the most power to change that system are mainly white men. Blacks and women certainly fought for their rights but the elected and appointed officials who actually changed the laws were mainly white men.
I know you want to pit me. Com’on, have at it. You can even team up with AK84 who says I’m a long-standing racist. Since there would be 2 of you pitting me, you can call it a pit roast
No number of voters of any consequence have ever supported a Biden run for the presidency. Given this history, and IMHO the complete and total lack of any reasons that might have changed voters’ minds simply because he was VP for eight years, leads me to the inescapable conclusion: NO!
…the elevation of Trump to the presidency of the United States was in part backlash by many white people to their perception that their “power” was being taken away. They have “the most power to change that system” because they created that system and are manipulating the system to maintain that power. The solution isn’t to “pander” to the system and hope that “the white man” doesn’t treat “non-white men” too badly. The solution is to participate in the system. To fight the system and (over time) to dismantle that system. To not “sit on the sidelines” because somebody on the internet thinks its best “they sit this one out” because only “white men can defeat Trump.”
I have no desire to pit you. I don’t even need to accuse you of “being racist” and I haven’t and won’t make that accusation. Your own words are indictment enough. Attempting to bait me into pitting you or to break the rules of this forum isn’t going to work no matter how hard you try.