I’m guessing that the punishment is more severe because the Rooneys had some input into it as well. I also think **SenorBeef **is right with the soft 4 game punishment, with the 4th week being a bye.
Because the Rooneys had input in the punishment, Ben’s not going anywhere.
Even though I think Roethlisberger is most likely guilty, I am not comfortable with the NFL’s ability to suspend people for accusations.
Roethlisberger can say “I did not give her any alcohol, I did not have sex with her, I did not touch her inappropriately, I didn’t do anything wrong and have never been arrested or charged, so why am I being suspended?”
What is the answer to that? “Well, my guess is you did it.”
Yeah, that is my guess too, but should people be suspended without pay for that?
4th week isn’t a bye. The sixth week is the bye for the Steelers.
Don’t believe the Steelers trading Ben talk. It’s not going to happen for one first round pick. Any team in the top 10 would be crazy not to take Ben for this year’s first rounder. The Steelers paid all of his bonus and guarantee money, so his new team wouldn’t be saddled with any of that. He’s a bargain at $65 million when you consider that they are estimating Sam Bradford will get between $50-$60 million without ever throwing a pass.
Ben may be a knucklehead, but he’s a legitimate franchise QB with 2 rings. 6 games is enough. If he bones up again, he’s gone. But he’s 28 and in the prime of his career. If I’m the Rams, Bills, Raiders or Browns, I’m trading. Hell, if I’m the Redskins, I’m trading!
Unless the Steelers get multiple picks and/or cash to overwhelm them, I for one would be shocked. The Steelers are smart enough to know you can find a wide receiver anywhere. But a franchise QB? Good luck finding one of those. They have one. They aren’t letting him go on the cheap. If the Steelers DO let him go, it could be the single biggest over-reaction in NFL history.
Hell, what team in the top 10 hearing he could be had for their number 1 pick wouldn’t be on the phone to the Steelers? That’s the best pick in the draft
I love this precedent. After I win the lottery(!) I’m going to pay several women to file civil lawsuits against every starting quarterback in the AFC North. After all, there’s no need for charges to be filed, accusation is quite good enough.
4-6 games? For what, being a boorish prick? Not using good judgment? there are actual criminals that don’t get suspended this long.
This makes me uncomfortable also.
How would you like to be the stud QB, cornerback, WR, or anyone else that is put in a compromising situation by someone? An ex-girlfriend with a vendetta (or someone looking to grab a quick buck) can say “He raped me” and that person is automatically under suspicion. How about someone who says, “Pay me, or I’m going to tell the cops you raped me.” or “Pay me, or I’m going to tell the cops you touched my children.” Crazy you say? When it comes to he-said she-said, when the allegation is out there, it’s out there. You can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube.
I think Ben did more than just play hopscotch in the bathroom, but I wasn’t there. That’s a bad way to set a precedent.
I think Ben’s quarterbacking skills can be debated as to whether he’s a genuine “franchise QB” (and whatever that means anymore)…I think he’s a GOOD quarterback that benefits from an utterly sound philosophy of solid defense, savvy front office/coaching, a little more defense, and running the ball. True, that wasn’t exactly their MO last season or even during their Superbowl run in 2008, but it isn’t like Ben is Tom Brady or anything. I wish people would stop hoisting him up on that pedestal.
He’s tough, strong-armed and hard to bring down because he’s big.
I think the Steelers had better teams in the 1990’s and suffered from really shitty QB play from the likes of O’Donnel and Kordell, and when an above-average QB came along, he ends up getting more credit than he deserves.
We don’t know what the NFL office knows. Perhaps they know more…perhaps not. I do agree that this is getting onto shifty, sandy ground in a sense, but it isn’t like its unprecedented for Goodell to suspend players without or before they were or were not convicted by the law. What’s surprising is that Ben got suspended at all. Isn’t Goodell Ben’s godfather or something?
I don’t think it can be argued that Ben exercised at a bare minimum extremely poor judgement. Again, the NFL has its own private investigators…perhaps they know more. If you really look into this case, its pretty obvious that the Milledgeville police were not only inclined towards Ben at the outset, but quite possibly botched the investigation on purpose. To protect Ben.
Maybe, maybe not. Your guy Rooney was the key player in getting Goodell elected. Ask him.
I think you understate the importance of the QB. You admit yourself that the Steeler teams of the 90’s might have been better, but had bad QB’s. So, a lesser team with a great QB takes them to 2 SB wins, and was integral in the second one.
Make a list of QB’s in the league you’d want over Ben… OK, I’ll make one.
Arron Rodgers? Maybe, maybe not. I like him, but I don’t think he’s in the elite QB list just yet.
Favre? Sure, but no future.
That’s it. He’s top 5 at least. If I had to pick a QB in the 2004 draft again, I would take Ben over Rivers and Manning.
Is he over-rated? Maybe. Maybe not.
But all that savvy philosophy, front-office work, Steeler way, great defense and system offense didn’t win a Super Bowl since 1980 (that’s Bradshaw). Ben’s impact cannot be minimized.
According to a poll in the Post-Gazette, it’s 60% in favor of trading him.
Being a winning quarterback isn’t everything. And a LOT of people seem to be saying no, don’t trade him, he won us two Super Bowls – that’s disturbing. And for people who say that a suspension is too much – that’s even worse, to my mind.
Sack him, I say. I’m sick of the whole, “she was paid to do it.” I’ve read the transcripts on The Smoking Gun, there have been more than one allegation, and where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Just because he wasn’t charged doesn’t mean he didn’t do it.
I think he’s scum.
(Note – I’m NOT saying he’s guilty or not. Just that defending someone by saying they’re good at football when they may have committed a crime is disgusting.)
Holy shit. A girl just posted in a football thread here. Has that ever happened before?
Do we have to quit farting and such now? 
:rolleyes:
Guin posts in hockey threads , too…
Doesn’t mean you have to pay attention to her.
She said “fuck the crapitals” the other day, and all that’s going to do is get old uncle brother walker hot and bothered.
fart as loud as you like
You are letting your personal feelings and emotions get in the way of business and common sense. The Steelers are a business. Granted, they have one of the most loyal fan bases in sports, and I have no doubt if a team overwhelms them with a trade offer or he farts too loud in church, he will be gone… but they aren’t going to get rid of him to placate the fans or the media. If they were so interested in what the fans think, Kordell Stewart would have never lasted as long as he did as the starting QB.
And the key to your own comment is that he “may have” committed a crime. “May have” isn’t “definitely”, and as much as my gut tells me you are right and the man did something inappropriate, he wasn’t charged.
I am one that doesn’t want to see the Steelers set themselves back to make a point. It’s a business, and if Ben ever plays for the Steelers again, and he continues to win, the city will support him again.
I also didn’t like the Steelers dumping Holmes for a 5th round pick, but in reading about Steeler philosophy, they learned from Burress that replacing a receiver is pretty easy, and if you find a guy that fits your system, you can get rid of a blue-chip receiver. QB’s, not so much. But look at the Colts… wasn’t Garcon a 7th round pick?
If Ben is proved to be a sexual deviant, a rapist, or a predator, I think he will be prosecuted and sent to jail if convicted. And I have no problem with that. But being an immature clown with a sense of entitlement doesn’t necessarily make him a rapist, or a criminal. It makes him a lousy person.
I don’t live in Pittsburgh anymore, so I have no idea what the mood in the town is. But I don’t think any Steeler fan could stomach them trading him to the Browns and have Cleveland beat them with Ben as their QB.
I am tired of Big Ben. I’m tired of seeing his name scrolling on the bottom of ESPN, the NFL network, or any number of other sports channels.
Sick of Ben yet?
Read this: http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/23222342/detail.html?hpt=T2
I was about to say that you forgot Rivers in your list of top QBs, then I read your claim that you would draft Ben over Rivers and…I just don’t know what to say. In 2009, Rivers threw for more TDs, fewer INTs, more yards, a higher QB rating, and took infinitely fewer sacks than did Ben. If you like more advanced stats, Rivers’s DYAR is ~135% that of Ben, and his DVOA is ~165% that of Ben’s. True, Rivers can be a pouty, mouthy little bitch from time to time, but stat wise, there simply is no comparison.
At least in 2009 Ben came sort of close to Rivers, but in 2008, Ben isn’t even in the discussion for very good QB play, much less great.
For current performance in 2010, absent the suspension, and absent concerns about longevity and cost, I’d still rank the following QB’s ahead of Ben:
Brees, P. Manning, Brady, Rivers, Favre, Schaub, Romo, Rodgers, McNabb (on the Eagles or a “neutral” ballclub). Factor in longevity and cost, and I’d rank Ryan ahead of Ben too; (I expect Ryan to improve considerably this year). So Ben’s a top-10 QB, but IMO, not a top 5.
To address the OP, I’m not sure exactly what happened in that bar, and I have a difficult philosophical time suspending a player, taking away their livelihood, for conduct neither proven in criminal court, nor in civil court. I also have a problem suspending players for 6 weeks for bad acts that are only alleged, while Leonard Little is still walking around a free employed member of the NFL. That said, I have no problem greatly disliking Ben for what he is alleged to have done. If he were injured in Week 7, I wouldn’t shed many tears.
The Steelers bye week is week 5, meaning that Ben gets to come back and have two weeks to practice with the team before taking the field again. It’s an ideal time for a bye, given that it’s likely the NFL is going to give the franchise a handjob and cut the suspension to 4 weeks.
I don’t care for Rivers, but I think he’s a good QB. I have no problem with someone who would consider Rivers over Ben. And without the baggage, I can see an even bigger upside. My concern with Rivers is that he hasn’t won, and he’s had some very good teams. He’s not made it to a Super Bowl yet. Ben’s been to 2. Maybe if Rivers was in Pittsburgh during the last 6 years, he has the 2 rings and Ben doesn’t. I don’t know. We’ll never know.
The only other QB I’d consider from your list is Matt Ryan, and that’s because of his age. He has tremendous upside, and again, if he were the Steeler QB, perhaps he’d be heading to a Super Bowl or two in his career.
Even by your list, he’s a top ten talent. Still not easy to replace. That’s 22 teams with a QB that is weaker than Ben.
In any event, I just hope they don’t knee-jerk and trade him. But if they do, they do.
I don’t know if the person you mentioned is who I heard being talked about this morning, but apparently there is a player in the NFL who killed someone in a drunken driving accident and was subsequently charged with another DUI after the vehicular homicide. He was given a smaller suspension than Ben. If anyone knows the particulars of this case, please share.
That name doesn’t ring a bell, but I was in and out of sleep this morning when I heard it. I can’t believe there are two of these stories out there (although there might be, or someone had their facts wrong), but other than the time he was suspended from the league (which I believe was mentioned as 4 games on the radio), the stories match up fairly well. Getting suspended for a year is much different than 4 games, though.
I’ll do some more digging and see if I can find out what player I thought this story about. thanks for digging this up, HKF.
OK. I just read the two page statement from the 20-year old female who accused Ben of sexual assault.
A few questions jump to mind (and please understand I’m not defending Ben, or his behavior)
I was under the impression from what I heard and read, that this woman was highly intoxicated. Ben had purchased a number of shots for a number of women in the party, and the woman who was in the bathroom with Ben was completely plowed.
Did the police check her blood alcohol level? If so, what was it?
The statement said that she left the club immediately after the incident, and went directly to a police officer to lodge the complaint. How much time elapsed between the incident and her finding the officer?
The statement is pretty coherent… and it is legible. Did she write it herself, or was it dictated to someone? The writing is clear and the story is very detailed. This doesn’t sound like a statement from a plastered 20 year old woman.
Is there anything in my questions that is in direct conflict with what anyone knows about this case?
Ghost is referring (and mentioned him by name) to Leonard Little.
Links: Leonard Little - Wikipedia
http://www.nndb.com/people/032/000045894/
You must have been listening to Mike & Mike this morning, too, because that is the example they used in comparison to what Ben received suspension-wise.
I’m having trouble finding what additional suspension(s) Little served for his second DWI charge, but he was suspended for 8 games in 1999.
But those were also different times under a different commissioner too.