Big Love 2/27/11

I’ll start a thread on this so Argent Towers doesn’t have to get all mad that there is no thread on top of being mad at the characters on the show :slight_smile:

Things wrapping up here. Not fond of the CaraLynn + Teacher thing AT ALL. It’s cliched, it’s creepy and it’s a stupid new plot point to just throw in there at the end of the series. The A/V Club writer pointed out that maybe it has something to do with Bill being attracted to underaged Marge but so fucking what. We get it. Dudes are pervy but chicks are scheming.

I can’t wait to see what happens with Barb and the cops next week. That’s going to be exciting!!

Here’s the weekly thread for that little show with the small but passionless following.

This sure was a boring episode. Actually, it’s almost laughable how much the producers are phoning it in at this point. Everything with Lois and Frank was totally unnecessary, a brute waste of time that could have been completely cut and the show and episode wouldn’t have suffered at all. The whole divorce business is also a really, really, really stupid plotline.

The Hendrickson family is stupid, stupid, stupid! The “marriage” was just for the purposes of adopting Caralyn, right? Which is fucking retarded in the first place, since she’s what, 17 years old? She’s going to be an adult in a few years - why bother adopting her? What’s the damn point? She doesn’t even seem to spend any time at home - she practically lives at her teacher/boyfriend’s place! What the hell is the point of adopting her?

But, that aside, the divorce and re-marriage to Nicki was just supposed to be a technicality. A form to be filled out to facilitate the adoption. Right? But they’re turning it into this big goddamn production and getting all emotional about it. Why? Isn’t the whole thing just bureaucratic government formality? Why do they put any emotional stock whatsoever in the official government-endorsed marriage? Is this not the same government that oppresses them, refuses to recognize them, thinks they are scum for being polygamists? The marriage should be meaningless to them - the important thing should be what they do in their own private religious ceremonies. Yet here they are making a huge production and party (with all the ensuing jealousy and grief from the other wives) out of the damn wedding.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Verlan really is a disgusting sleazy fucking scumbag, isn’t he? With that ugly mustache? I think he’s a pathological “sub” who gets off on being dominated and bossed around by a stronger man, obviously. He’s turned into Alby’s slave, even committing (incompetent) attempted cold-blooded murder on the guy’s behalf.

Again, where is Joey?

This show has turned into a pile of shit.

Well I agree but we’re in it 'til the end, aren’t we?

I’m confounded by the fact that I don’t really like anyone anymore. WTF is with Margene? It’s a believable turn for her character but it makes me dislike her for being so damned gullible. I still hope things turn out okay for her but damn, the pyramid scheme AND the ra-ra-religion stuff is a double-whammy.

Are we to assume that Heather told the bishop about Margene being under age? If so, WTF Heather!? It seems out of character for Heather to be that naive or stupid.

Do you think Barb will lie to the cops/feds? I can see her taking the snooty moral high ground and refusing to lie. OTOH, maybe it would be wise of her to tell the truth, with all those kids it can’t be terribly difficult to prove that Margie was underage when Bill started banging her.

I’ve been enjoying the Frank and Lois bits myself. I agree they’re unnecessary but they are usually a bit humorous in the face of a dreary final season.

And yeah, where the fuck is Joey? Where is Wanda?

I’m enjoying all of this WAY more than you two are.

First of all, so we don’t see Joey and Wanda? Well, that’s fine. There’s more than enough going on already.

And I agree that the wedding thing is a bit contrived, but so is an awful lot of what’s gone on over the course of the show. What makes the show work for me is not how plausible the plot points are, but how powerful they are and how the characters who I’ve grown to have affection for respond to them.
Which isn’t to say that it doesn’t bug me a bit when they’re implausible (and last season was so bad partly because some of them took that suspension of disbelief way way past the point of plausibility), but it doesn’t ruin my enjoyment of the show. And there were some darn powerful moments this episode, particularly Barb seeing Bill and the other two wives doing the resealing without her.

I think the point of the wedding/divorce being a big deal is that all of the women are a bit hypocritical: while they preach “it’s just a piece of paper” and “we’re married in spirit”, it is a big deal to be acknowledged by the state as well as by the (storefront) church, similar to the way some gay couples didn’t realize how much they wanted to be married until it was a possibility.

Lois and Frank: would you kill off one or the other of them already? Chekhov’s gun might get fired before the end of the third act but Barb’s sure didn’t; I assumed that her pulling it out of her purse meant it would feature later, especially when she dropped her purse in front of Lois.

IRL the family would have been offered any manner of reality shows by now.

While I’m not usually a proponent of 37 year old teacher/16 [or however old] student hookups, I think in Cara Lynn’s case if her boyfriend asked her to marry her it’d be the best thing that ever happened to her (if only for lack of competition). This is also one of the few times a graphic sex scene might actually be relevant to the plot (and not just because I have lust in my heart for Chris Campbell): it’s unclear to me how far they’ve gone. They’re straightening a bed together and very familiar with each other but he says something (I can’t remember the exact line) about her purity- it makes me wonder if they stop before penetration or whatever. (My suspicion is that his secret- the “thing” that stops an attractive 37 year old hetero Mormon professional in SLC from having been married- is that he’s mentally ill and will have an episode.)

Bill’s the biggest damned fool in SLC if he doesn’t sell his stores. They’re going to be in bankruptcy very soon but if he sells them now to someone who isn’t on the LSD shite-list he can still get a lot of money. And also he’d have used the “Alby is a homo” blackmail as an opening bid in real life and nobody, myself included, would blame him.

Speaking of Alby, anyone else think Juniper Creek is heading for a Jonestown?

And what did Heather spill to the Bishop? I didn’t even think she knew about Margene’s age, let alone that she’d be bothered by it (especially since Margene by her own admission lied to Bill about it).

I didn’t get the re-sealing- I really don’t believe Margene, at least the character of Margene that I’ve known so far, would participate without Barb being involved. And why did Bill allow Barb to perform the ceremony? Because he knew it meant nothing or was he acknowledging that she held the priesthood now?

And as much as Nicki is my favorite character, Bill isn’t half so stupid to not sell his stores as he is to allow Nicki any form of legal recognition (and therefore hold on his property). And I agree that not selling his stores is almost as stupid as it gets. If he had half a conscience, he’d at least buy poor Don out of his mess.

There were some interesting things in this episode: right now Barb is doing her own thing and Margene is trying to hold everybody together; and early on, as Nicki was grabbing for a bigger piece of Bill, Barb was saying ‘you can have him.’ In the end Nicki took as much as she could, which was rather Juniper Creek-y. (It was a good Nicki episode.) That aside, I agree this was a step down from the last couple of episodes. OK, Alby could put Bill out of business, but the show hasn’t spent much time with Home Plus since the first season. The show started with Bill negotiating with Roman about a loan that helped pay for the first store; since then, Home Plus is just the place that absorbs the fallout of whatever else Bill is doing. It makes it hard to care how the characters would feel if the stores went up in smoke. Given Marge’s line about ‘Bill is Home Plus and Home Plus is us’ or whatever, I guess this is supposed to be a big deal. I’m not sure how a dispute over rent, or even the bankruptcy of the stores, is going to turn into a climactic issue in the next three episodes.

Good for Ben for getting the fuck away from Rhonda. I can feel pity for Rhonda but she’s manipulative, dangerous, and really lacking in any redeeming qualities. As far as Lois almost killing Frank… eh. They’ve trod the same ground a lot of times and wound up saying the same thing last week. I get it: they both have nothing left except each other and it’s still pretty screwed up. Bill re-sealing himself to Nicki and Marge is a major vote of no-confidence in Barb. I’m not sure how I feel about that. It’s interesting but I’m not sure he’d do that. And what was with that kiss?

We’ll see what happens with the statutory rape thing. I think it might have worked better if the fallout (assuming that’s what it is) came closer to the time Marge revealed her secret.

The Home Plus plotline is lame for many reasons. Whenever a company builds a huge store like that on leased land everything is negotiated to the nth degree up front: there would be a very long term lease and a granite cap on how much the rent can go up after it expired. Even if Bill rushed gung ho into store building his lawyers or bankers would have said “Oh hell no!” if his landlord had the right to raise the rent 25% whenever he liked. I also seriously doubt that it would be like renting an apartment where you had to call the landlord if your AC went out or you had a plumbing problem: you’d probably be responsible for all general maintenance yourself (and in fact that’s not unheard of in renting a home, especially when renting from an individual). It just doesn’t work for several reasons.

Did Bill get bought out of the casinoes or just become a silent partner? Since the tribe added in drinking and topless dancing and the like I can’t imagine his shares would have gone down in value.

All good points, and things of which Bill should have been aware in a more realistic situation. Maybe the old landlord had herpes. :rolleyes:

I have absolutely no idea what happened. But I’m assuming we would know if they were bought out.

By the way, which one of the Henricksons is into Stevie Wonder?

The same one who’s into the Zombies, probably.

I really think the music for the past few Big Love seasons has sucked donkey diekh. The first season’s bouncy xylophone-heavy incidental music by Mark Mothersbaugh kicked ass; it was perfect for the quirky domesticity and light hearted feel to the early seasons. They’re obviously trying to go “darker” with the music, but by and large, it has been a failure.

For the most part I was pretty happy with this episode, and the season as a whole ( with more than a few nitpicks mixed in, of course), but I’m very curious about the police pulling Barb, and not Bill in for questioning. Assuming that this whole mess is about Margene’s age, and not some unforeseen twist, I would think that Barb would be far from the first person on the list of witnesses to interview. Margene, Bill, or Heather have the absolute most direct knowledge of whatever it is they’re investigating, which seems to be about Bill wooing his 16 year old babysitter, marrying her, and procreating with her all while she was legally still a child. Her birth certificate is a matter of public record, as her pregnancy would be. While not necessarily enough to convict on (she DID lie about her age, after all, and even had certain documents forged to maintain the lie), they should have at least spoken to Bill, Margie, and Heather about it before dragging in corroborating witnesses… or am I just grossly misinformed here?

I missed the beginning of the scene with Heather and the bishop but I don’t think she “spilled the beans”. There is a quick scene in the last half of the show, in an institutional setting, maybe the DA’s office. They are listening to a tape of one of Margene’s public interviews where she is talking about how she was “just a child” when she came into the marriage and how much help Barb was to her during this time.

I was assuming this is their evidence and that this is why they pulled Barb in for questioning…although it does require a certain suspension of disbelief, if Margene’s first child was conceived before she was 18 then that is all the evidence they would need, if not then the allegations will be hard to prove if the Hendricksons circle the wagons. I thought the phone call to Heather ws just her Dad the cop being protective, I didn’t read it as her having any involvement

Speaking of suspension of disbelief I am still a little “over” the fact that Margene must’ve been like 14 when she dated the guy from Home Plus that spanked her.

And the MLM subplot is going just where I thought it would, probably because it’s a scenario I’ve seen a LOT in this bad economy…a talented salesperson loses their job and even though they aren’t stupid they think they can make an MLM job work because they have an extensive professional sales background…but it still is a money pit because the product sucks and it never works out.

I didn’t realize who was watching the video, but that explains it. I did notice that Marge stressed “just a child” a couple of times and thinking her wording would have raised the suspicions of anyone who was paying attention. I guess someone was paying attention after all.

Well, the end of the scene with Heather and the Bishop had her telling him that she “Overheard something” which was intentionally kept secret from us, then we saw (I can’t recall the specific order) a scene of the police watching the tape with Margene, and talking with Bill’s colleague. It was kind of the underlying theme of the episode: “What was it that Heather overheard?”. I find it very likely that she told the Bishop the troubling thing she overheard (she was discussing how wonderful the Hendricksons were, except the secret thing she overheard ______" end scene.), he likely called her father or the police in general (Breaking the vows of secrecy to reveal a city official, and one that the church wants to see destroyed, as basically a child molester.), and they began investigating. It just seems to me that there would be more important people to talk to than Barb, especially since warning him of the investigation would cause the family to “circle the wagons”.

Also, while she mentioned this on the tape, this is far from any real evidence as it could just as easily have been a woman referring to her growth in a polygamist family from child to woman. “I once was a naive pup in the woods until I found the gentle, caring hands of…Bill…Hendrickson:rolleyes:” And they didn’t seem interested in the tape until AFTER Heather revealed her Something about why the Hendrickson’s didn’t sit right with her, and remember, this is way after the entire state knew about their polygamy, Juniper Creek, Nickie’s connection to Roman Grant, and most of the other things she could have possible heard that would require the show to keep from us.

Nope. That was the only part of this episode that rang true for me.

IMO, it would not be out of character for a mainstream LDS girl to believe her bishop has Divine discernment and should be a trusted place to talk about stuff. Right? Most clergy, in other churches, can be relied upon to respect one’s privacy. At Heather’s age, she may not yet have been placed in the position to have shared something personal with the bishop only to find out later that there’s telephone, telegram, and tell a bishop. :smiley: I learned that the hard way at age 15, but most of my peers did not encounter the lack of respect to one’s privacy in bishop interviews until later (when you start discussing more serious adult issues with your clergy).

As soon as the bishop (and what is with that luxurious office he has? That is so not how bishops’ offices look. Picture your elementary school principal’s office. That’s what a bishop’s office looks like) perked up, I started screaming at the TV: “No, Heather, don’t do it! He will throw them all under the bus! DON’T DO IT! DON’T DO IT!” I knew she’d do it anyway because she’s been taught to trust the bishop implicitly, despite the fact that he’s probably an engineer or a salesguy or something and has no ecclesiastical or ministerial training whatsoever. Bishops are completely unqualified to do the job they do, but mormons who were born and raised in the church don’t know any differently, so they do what they’re told: They tell the bishop everything.

The exmormon and postmormon boards are full of stories about how people learned the hard way not to tell the bishop your secrets.

Doctrinal note: Mormons are not required to confess any sins except sexual sins (adultery) or murder. If you feel compelled to confess a sin to the bishop, you’re welcome to (and the bishop will just use your guilt and shame to control you), but for the most part, mormons believe they can be forgiven for sins through prayer and repentance, directly with god. No need to go through a middleman unless you killed or fucked somebody. That said, many mormons use their bishop as a sort of advisor/therapist (despite their general lack of qualifications for such), which is what appears Heather was doing. Most people don’t go to the bishop unless he requests a worthiness interview; those are conducted prior to baptisms, some youth group activities, and for temple admittance.

Typing that out, I just saw a contradiction I never really noticed before. :wink: While confession isn’t generally required, one is expected to confess to sins during the worthiness interviews. I guess they’ll get it out of you one way or another. :rolleyes:

Heather was in the room (it was at dinner) when the truth came out and Margene blurted out her secret. I fully endorse this post.

I agree, but what makes you think he’s getting *away *from Rhonda? I can see Ben thinking he can have his Heather and save Rhonda, too! Testimony of the pants, just like Daddy. And can we assume that Ben slept with Rhonda with that “we can’t do what we did last night again” comment?

Agreed. Wouldn’t they have had their own little celebration when bringing a new wife into the fold? They’re acting as if this is Nikki’s “special day” that she’s never had. :rolleyes:

Nah, it was Barb having the authority to perform the civil ceremony as a mail-order minister. That kept them out of the spotlight of the Justice of the Peace office. I’m sure Bill convinced Margene & Nikki to go ahead with the resealing, reasoning that he was being sensitive to Barb’s current feelings. Intead, it just further alienated her. Run, Barb! Run while you can! Fly! Be free!

Does anybody know what’s involved in a legal civil ceremony? Does there **have to be **a ceremony? Barb used the basic language that we’ve all heard, ending with “…as long as you both shall live,” which Nikki previously used as an example of vile language when compared to the Church of Bill’s sealing “for time & all eternity.” Doesn’t there just need to be a marriage license, a couple of witnesses, and someone with legal authority?