This is how, in fact, polygamy is currently practiced in the mainstream mormon church, although some True Believing Mormons may come in here to dispute this opinion. My point being, if you die a lonely spinster sob and are assigned to a husband in the afterlife, chances are, that guy was married already. So you get to be a polygamous wife in the afterlife, whether you wanted to be or not (lesbians would fall into this category).
If a man marries in the temple and either divorces or is widowed, he may marry again in the temple. Then, in the afterlife, he gets to keep both wives and all children that resulted from both marriages.
This is current doctrine, AFAIK, but I’m not sure I have the time to sift through the Book of Mormon or D&C to look for cites. That doctrine might come from Prophet and General Authority speeches at conferences, so it might be like following a rabbit trail to find the dude who said it first.
So assuming Barb’s father was a Mormon in good standing, wouldn’t her mom just be with him in the next life? Why is it a big deal she have a priesthood holder in the here and now?
Kind of a nitpick question but I’ll ask anyway: Barb pronounced Melchizadek as Mel-CHIZ {ch as in cheese) a-dek but it was later pronounced (by Bill I think) as Mel-KIZ-adek (which is the way I’ve always heard it). Which is correct?
First question: because she still has no power socially. She has no economic power, or any way to make money. She has no political power, she doesn’t have any way to influence the Machiavellian mechanisms that go at that compound on a daily basis. Without a husband, she is pretty much persona non grata. When she was the prophet’s wife, she was involved in the community, had stuff to do, and got to BE somebody. Now, she is a lonely old woman sleeping with a suit and a picture and carrying her daughter’s ex-husband’s baby.
Second question: I didn’t notice the difference in pronunciations, but IMO, Barb mispronounced. I was present when the Melchizadek priesthood was conferred upon my father. I’ve always heard it pronounced the way Bill said it. Actually, to my midwestern ears, it sounds more like “Mel-KEZ-a-dik.” I have no idea what is actually correct, but I’ve only heard that word with the hard -k sound, never with a -ch sound.
I thought JJ was taking Cara Lynn’s eggs, fertilizing them with his (or his son’s) own sperm, and implanting them in unsuspecting women.
[QUOTE=Dogzilla]
First question: because she still has no power socially. She has no economic power, or any way to make money. She has no political power, she doesn’t have any way to influence the Machiavellian mechanisms that go at that compound on a daily basis. Without a husband, she is pretty much persona non grata. When she was the prophet’s wife, she was involved in the community, had stuff to do, and got to BE somebody. Now, she is a lonely old woman sleeping with a suit and a picture and carrying her daughter’s ex-husband’s baby…
[/QUOTE]
Everything you say is true about Adaleen, Barb’s mother is a normal mainstream LDS upper middle class woman who’s never set foot on the compound. Her husband was a Mormon in good standing and she remained sealed to him after he died (a sealing which she cancelled in order to remarry). Why is it such a big deal for her to have a priesthood holder in the home? Does it have anything do to with her having only daughters and no son? Who would she be expected to turn to for blessings? Her son-in-law (Barb’s sister’s husband, not Bill)? A living brother?
Okay, I’m going to stop pretending I know where the eggs came from.
Barb’s mom has the same problem as Adaleen; it’s just more subtle. She would be referred to her Home Teacher, or her bishop for blessings, for example. If she had a son or brother in the church, she could go to a family member, but absent family members, her HT or bishop ends up being the go-to guy.
It’s not just blessings. A lot of mormon women are helpless about “men’s” work like investing for retirement, or mowing the lawn, or taking the car in for an oil change. Any little thing that she would perceive as a man’s decision, she would have to call in some priesthood holder with the authority to make that decision.
From one of the pages I linked to above (italics mine):
In Carolyn Jessop’s book Escape she mentions a book called Fascinating Womanhood that was required reading on the Mormon compound where she grew up and she stated it was big in mainstream Mormonism as well. It literally is a guide to how to act stupid and helpless and pout and always make the man feel big and important.
One of its pieces of advice, per Jessop, is for a woman to do something like insist on installing a paper cup dispenser in the kitchen herself without the man’s help, but then to install it upside down so that he has to correct her “mistake” as the woman goes “Oh pooh!” or some such. Jessop said that even on the polygamous compound where she grew up this was laughable. They called the really hardshell Kool-Aid drinking girls “Nusses”, taken from the word “Righteousness”, and a joke was “Did you hear about the Nuss who was so stupid she installed the cup dispenser right side up?”
Jessop, for those not familiar, became the fourth wife of Merril Jessop in Colorado City (the Jeffs compound on the UT/AZ border) when she was 18 and he was in his early 50s. When she left she had 8 kids (one severely mentally and physically disabled), $20 in cash and less than a quarter of a tank of gas. Her book describes the horror of her life until then- especially at the hands of his third wife- as her husband rose in the community. Her husband is now the leader of the sect while Jeffs is in prison and presides over the new compound in Texas; he took more wives after her and has 60+ children.
Cara Lynn being smart is not a new development. Last season when she comes to stay with Nikki and enrolls in school she placed a year ahead on the standardized tests.
Another thing that really surprised me was the number of women attending the forum? :eek: What’s the deal with that? Are they supposed to be from “progressive” sects, or were did their husbands opt to send them as representatives for PR purposes?
That book has made the rounds in the mainstream mormon community as well and is often cited in Young Women’s as how to behave. I’ve read most of it, but long after I’d left the church, so none of the brainwashing took effect on me.
I did get up and stalk out of the Sunday School class when I was 14 and was told, “The sole purpose of a woman on this earth is to be a wife and mother.”
“So… Mother Theresa, a nonmormon, is condemned, then?” :dubious:
“Right.”
“And my nonmormon, working mother who is an RN and saves lives for a living? She should be condemned because she’s not a stay-at-home-mom and she’s shirking her duty? She doesn’t get credit from god for all her caring compassion and lifesaving she does every single day?”
“Right. [Repeats, broken-record style, her mantra out of the lesson manual].”
:: Dogzilla gets up and leaves class ::
My dad spotted me, sitting quietly on the couch in the foyer, patiently waiting for church to be over. He came over to investigate wtf I was doing out of class. I told him about the exchange above. My stepmom was also a working mom at the time: she’s capable of plenty more than wife and mommy (which was my whole point; that’s fine if that’s what you want, but you shouldn’t be pigeonholed into that if you want that and more). He was just as offended as I was and allowed me to remain on the couch until church was over. That was very rogue of him to not underscore the lesson the church was trying to teach me.
I’ve held off on commenting on the most recent episode, because it brought out all the reasons that I so abhor the LDS faith, the number one reason being the way women are treated/looked at. I realize that it’s a show for entertainment purposes, yet it seems like there are many tenets of the faith which get explored and shown to the viewers, some of whom have had no experience whatsoever with the Mormon church.
The whole attitude that a woman could not give a blessing or be a priesthood holder (apologies if I’m getting any of this wrong, btw) really ticked me off. It didn’t surprise me, mind you, just re-aggravated me. A lot of what was said at the abortive meeting that Bill tried to set up was, I felt, realistic for both LDS and FLDS: women/girls are treated like chattel, sometimes they aren’t even educated or given the opportunity to attend school. Society as a whole pretty much has worked through this, though I guess there are still plenty around whose beliefs go way deep. If you want to read something really sickening, on more than one level, read an account of the suffragettes; when they would go on food strikes, the jailers would force feed them. That’s how much they were willing to endure just to get the right to vote–and that was only one hundred years ago that they were fighting for that right.
I don’t mean to get started, but that episode churned me up that much. And why is everyone so concerned with the afterlife–they should really be more concerned with the here and now, and especially how they treat others in the here and now. Oh yes, and LDS seem to be masters of the wearing of the mask! All of them smiling as Barb’s still-miked Mom continues to talk about stuff into the parking lot. LOL
The most surprised I’ve ever been at somebody converting to Mormonism was Gladys Knight: she’s black and female and considering what she’s accomplished in her life she’s presumably very intelligent (though admittedly intelligence and critical thinking aren’t necessarily linked): what exactly was the appeal of the LDS church when you read their very recent (well into her lifetime) teachings on blacks and the role of women in the church’s history and even modern day?
Other converts are more explicable. Glenn Beck I could easily see on a compound with a bunch of dense big haired teenaged wives, though I know he’s mainstream of course. Rick Schroder is a rich white good looking male so he’s well treated in any religion outside the Nation of Islam, though I think his wife being Mormon is what drew him to the religion of course. And then there’s Mrs. Larry King- I’d love to have been a fly on the wall when she told her family “I’ve met the man of my dreams- he’s Jewish, short, diabetic, old enough to be my dad, has 6 ex-wives and a history of heart problems… just dreamy!” (and if I’m not mistaken she’s from a well-to-do family so even his money wouldn’t have been that big a plus).
Robert Patrick, wow, I never thought he’d show up on this show. This guy really is one of the strangest and most distinctive looking actors out there. I hope he is used well on this show and not squandered away.
Early in the episode when Barb encounters her mother, there is an old guy and a woman in the background…is this old guy the same guy who played Daniel Plainview’s butler in There Will Be Blood?Here is a picture.
I wanted to slap Barb’s bitch mother senseless when she insulted Barb’s classic red wood-paneled station wagon! That vehicle has personality.
Nikki has always been my most hated character on the show and I really can’t stand her. I do have sympathy for people who are as mentally disturbed as she is, but their behavior is unacceptable and Bill should have cut her out of his life a long time ago. She is totally joyless and does nothing but insult and provoke other people. She doesn’t have a shred of kindness or warmth in her soul; she is totally frigid and sociopathic and I desperately hope that she gets what she deserves by the end of the show: a miserable, pathetic, lonely existence.
Who the fuck is “the Major”? Is she an actual Major in the armed forces? Where on earth was the back-story for this character and that other woman who was with her?
You DO see Ben - in the first episode of this season (after that jerk spits in Bill’s face, Ben shoves him out of the room.)
I am glad to see Don finally standing up for himself, and I’m also glad that he let that flat-top grow out. The only way to pull of that kind of haircut is to be a Marine or from the 1950s.
I’m glad with the direction this show is taking. Things that I hope to see less of in this season than in the previous ones:
Lois
Frank
The Greens (they were best in small doses)
[QUOTE=Argent Towers]
Who the fuck is “the Major”? Is she an actual Major in the armed forces? Where on earth was the back-story for this character and that other woman who was with her?
[/QUOTE]
She was the mother of the legislator who Barb once babysat for, and I assumed she’s a major in the military sense unless that’s some sort of church or other title I’m not familiar with. The actress was Mariette Hartley, probably best known for the camera commercials she did with James Garner (they had such chemistry many people assumed they were married).
[QUOTE=Argent Towers]
I’m glad with the direction this show is taking. Things that I hope to see less of in this season than in the previous ones:
Lois
Frank
The Greens (they were best in small doses)
[/QUOTE]
I like Lois but they seem to be sending her over Senility Falls. I’m surprised no Frank yet. The literal disarming of Hollis Greene was a low point in the show (Lois has that kind of a swing? The machete was that sharp? Hollis has bones the consistency of bread dough? They can’t get Hollis to the hospital AND kill the Henricksens?). I’ll admit I developed a weakness for Brother Selma though.
A bit of backstory I always thought they were weak on was Frank’s other children. He had several wives in addition to Lois and yet it never mentioned other kids until a couple of seasons when one of his teenaged sons showed up, but by this time he and wives had been kicked off the compound (what about the kids?) and much mention was made of Bill and Joey’s dead sister but apparently they weren’t on speaking terms with any half-siblings, of whom you’d think there’d be many. Of course 31 seemed a small number of children for Roman to have considering how many wives he had and how long he’d been a polygamist.
I wonder if Roman will be on the series this year. True he’s been dead a while but he made some cameos last year.
Many years ago I worked with a TBM, althought not preachy. She was telling me & other co-workers about how the Prophet (at the time) had released a new message about how important it was for women to stay home & have babies, and immediately afterward half of the SLC temple staff, all women, quit their jobs. To my non-Mormon mind, I thought they’d quit in protest. The TBM co-worker corrected me that they’d quit to stay home & have babies as instructed. Oops!
Apparently that caused quite a storm at the SLC HQ, in that they were short-staffed & had to tone down the message to get them back to work. Tee hee!
I agree that Nikki is hard to swallow, but she really adds to the show. She is Bill’s real, true “compound wife” where Barb is just his ex-regular-Mormom wife and Margene is someone he sort of conned in to the lifestyle. Nikki is probably the only one who 100% believes in Bill’s vision. I really don’t see him being in a successful Polygamous Mormon marriage without her compound influence. If he was married to a bunch of normal women - even a bunch of Barbs or a bunch of Margenes - it would not have gotten this far.
[QUOTE=ZipperJJ]
Nikki is probably the only one who 100% believes in Bill’s vision.
[/QUOTE]
Whatever that vision happens to be at the moment since it tends to change.
I think Nikki would make one hell of a compound leader, something like a polygamous Susan B. Anthony or Jackie Robinson. Alby’s senior (?) wife Lura is Lady MacBeth, Nikki could take it one step further and be Cleopatra (though I’d doubt she’d end as happily).
Got to this episode way late; just now, in fact. Couple quick points:
I’m pretty sure when Margene was dancing all crazy she was hopped up on that energy drink stuff she was hoping to sell Avon-style.
John Mace beat me to the point about Cara Lynn not being from the compound. I seem to remember one of the things JJ was so pissed about when she went to live with Nicki was that she was missing out on her schooling. I think they did emphasize her education, so it didn’t seem totally out of the blue to me that she was a mathlete. Though I agree that her “shorts in summer = whore” attitude did such an abrupt 180 as to cause whiplash.
When posting a very long citation in-thread, a spoiler box might be a good choice since it compresses it into a small box until opened for reading.
I don’t hold Mother Theresa in particularly high esteem. I kind of think she got off on the suffering of others. How many people under her care died of AIDS thanks to the lack of condoms?
