He later says that he did not “get off” on hazing the freshmen, and defends his “obligation” to treat incoming freshmen in this manner and acts like he did the guy a favor.
First off, what you do is your business, but when you post it for public comment on a message board and it involves hazing, expect backlash. My real issue with you is not the yelling or the getting off on yelling, it’s the inconsistent backpeddling. It reminds me a lot of the FreakFreely meltdown. First he boasts about harassing someone, then he backpeddles and makes excuses and claims to have not enjoyed it. He later confessed that it never even happened and that he was basically losing it, but that’s another thread entirely.
You said:
Then when confronted and accused of “getting off” on your “power”, you say:
You also said:
To which I say: Bullshit backpeddling. So you are short and have a speech impediment- you were astonished and amazed that your hazing caused him to cry because of this? Okaaaaay… What about when your roomate started and you had to “run from the room”? Is he a short speech impeded individual also?
What we have here is a failure to communicate. In my world (and obviously in others), busting a gut laughing because you made someone cry is the equivilant of “getting off” on it. Busting a gut laughing because you made someone cry indicates taking great joy in being an asshole.
I’m not judging what you do at Texas A&M, but at least have the courage to admit what you are and what you did. You had a taste of humiliating another human being, he cried like a baby in front of everyone, and you felt good about it and found it funny.
I find you more of an asshole for denying that fact (as written by you) then I do for the actual hazing. If you are a bully, at least own up to it to yourself, if not to others.
This could be funny if you were crying. I might have to leave the room.
But that was last year, right? You don’t have to take abuse, you’re tough this year. Because it’s your job to dole it out. Without question. And you get the bonus of having fun with it.
sigh Abusing others, no matter what the circumstances, is not supposed to be fun. I would argue that its not even all that useful in an EDUCATIONAL venue. Disapline, team work, and all the rest of the useful skills can be found without sadism winning the day. People can push themselves far harder under someone they respect than under someone they fear. The yelling may even look the same, but the abuses are far fewer.
Ghost look at your actions in the vacuum of your own self. Do you really want to be the type of person who enjoys the suffering of others? The term is sadist. You don’t have to be one, no matter how much it is beloved or encouraged by your environment/traditions/ethos. But you’re the one who has to look at that.
Zette, I’m glad that you started this thread, because every time I opened the original I became too angry to reply coherently.
Zette and Medea’s Child put it more succintly than I could hope to, so I’m just chiming in with a ‘me too.’
I don’t know whether to feel disgusted at Ghost for his callousness and simplicity, or to feel pity for him. Anyone who ‘busts a gut’ laughing at a humiliated and shamed response from a vulnerable individual obviously has problems that the Straight Dope community can’t even begin to correct.
I can’t imagine a more horrible way to start the school year than being one of the “Fishes” that Ghost so cheerfully dehumanized. What compounds the sheer patheticness of the situation is that he had to exercise very, very little power to get the reaction that he did. These unfortunate students had been thrust into a new environment, knowing few people, and were presumably separated from their families for the first time. Their initial impression of their campus life was one of powerlessness, stupidity, ignorance, and intimidation.
So, I don’t know if you’re reading this, but congratulations, Ghost. Your fragile ego lives to see another day.
There is also a difference between good natured “initiation” and downright cruelty.
When I was in high school, during Homecoming Week, one day the Freshman would have to wear something silly. WE had to wear garbage bags, another class had to wear party hats and bibs, one class had to wear toilet seat covers and pig noses made out of old cups, etc etc. Just silly stuff.
Or we’d have to get up and sing a song during lunch, or carry trays for seniors.
I’d post something better but I just can’t collect my thoughts on this guy clearly. I just get side tracked too easily.
I’ll just say I feel sorry for his current or future gf and wife and kids cause unless he changes his ways their life is going to suck.
And wankin’ off the little man inside just to make yourself feel big is bad. Those actions have bully written all over it.
Here’s a word you need to learn and assimilate “empathy - understanding so intimate that the feelings, thoughts and motives of one are readily comprehended by the other.” I suggest you print it out and paste it on your wall. It is the path that wise men follow in life.
While I do not defend the hazing at these places, I do know that those schools do teach more maturity later on in the school years. I’ve known a bunch of officers who went through this type of thing, and I myself was heavily recruited by The Citadel (I did not want to be in the military until I was in the REAL military), and they do not all become the assholes that they play in school. Some do. I posted this in the other thread, but he’s going to learn a different way to deal with people later on, and there is some hope he’ll outgrow this phase that the school encourages and promotes. If not, he’ll get fragged by his men in the Army.
This is why I joined a community college instead of going straight into a university. I didn’t want any of the shitty class superiority (sp?) bullshit that seems to be a bit more sadistic in a university (although I could be wrong, now) than a high school.
Either way, it’s stupid, I agree. Reminds me of the movie If….
I would like to apologize as some of my comments in the thread listed were inappropriate and over the line.
After some thoughts I have realized he was just following tradition and that in itself is not a bad thing. It is just that the tradition he was writing about is something that is being evaluated and slowly changed and that makes it a subject that causes extreme reactions sometimes.
After a few days thought I can even start to understand why he might have wanted to laugh at the situation since he does not see himself as a non-threatening person but rather just the opposite. Sort of the laughter that come from an ironic situation.
I do know though that this is a topic that should be reviewed and debated in GD. But I also know that it would be a hard topic to not let tempers get out of hand.
So Mr. SpaceGhostofArrakis:
I do hope that you have gone to the freshman you wrote about and talked about this. That in itself would make you a very large man in my book.
Again I apologize for any pain I may have caused you. I wish you the best in your Cadet program and if you go into the military, may you be the best officer in your unit.
I feel a tad shitty posting this after deb’s empathetic comments (I’m really not being sarcastic or anything), but the rest of y’alls posts have driven me to repeat myself:
From the original thread
Have any of you ever thought that maybe his laughing about it was a way of covering up a pang of regret? Did you even read his other thread saying how much he didn’t like having to be intimidating? Of course not, because you somehow think it’s your ill-chosen purpose in life to rehabilitate the poor online souls who aren’t as successful as you in being perfect.
You may feel better about yourself trying to play shrink to him, but chances are, he hasn’t even read this nor does he care.
I couldn’t read that thread after I found myself unable to respond to the original post.
I have been in on some pretty bad hazing myself. Mostly as the recipient, but also standing idly by with others dished it out. I cannot begin to sort through my feelings on the matter. I’ve seen what it can accomplish, both good and bad. I mostly think it preys on the worst part of our selves. Yet I embraced the “tradition” for a lot of reasons.
That thread bothers me on a bunch of levels. The practice, the “amazement” the OP stated that someone cried, the way we look down on male crying as a society, the need to post about the incident on the goddamn message board.
Gonna have to disagree with you there. It’s much easier to avoid in uni; all you need to do is not join a fraternity. In my high school, it was inescapable. horresco referens
The class superiority issue definitely varies from one university to another. The university I attend has over 30,000 students, yet there is no hazing (outside of what goes on in the fraternities, which really isn’t as bad as the media in general would have you to believe). The practice of hazing was ended by the Class of 1911 which, according to the university’s website, instructed the sophomores to “align themselves on opposite sides of Pullen Park, and at a signal, lunge at each other with weapons limited to bare fists.” The Class of 1911 also vowed to never haze other students.
This impressed the faculty so much that they named one of the buildings “The 1911 Building” in honor of the class.
