Big Shocker: The Government Rips People Off!

The BBQ Pit
1

OK, I’m ready to go to college. Except for the fact that I don’t have any money.

There’s this form you fill out, the FAFSA, that determines how much Financial Aid is available to you from the government and/or your state. The questions are based on your taxes from the previous year.

Last year, for tax purposes, I was a dependent, because I was a seventeen year old highschool student living with my mother and stepfather. However, I am now neither living with them nor attending school, and I have a job and support myself. So, I will have to file this year’s taxes(next Spring) as an independent. Additionally, that will be one less dependent my mother and stepfather can claim on their taxes.

So, that makes me a dependent for last year, and an independent for this year and next year, when I would be going to college.

So, wanna know what’s totally bogus? The FAFSA people only consider you an independent when you are either:

23 years old
married
have children
both parents are deceased
a ward of the state
a veteran

This means that the government decides how much money they’ll give me based on my stepfather’s income. However, when they decide how much money I’m to give them, I’m a full-fledged independent adult.

Why didn’t anybody tell me they were jerks?

2

The FAFSA (Free Application For Student Aid) uses tax returns to determine income which, in turn, is used to base a level of aid. It has very little to do with the IRS itself.

The reason they want your parents’ returns for those 4 years is they expect families with enough income to help pay. If your step-father makes $200k a year, why should my taxes go toward your tuition?

You do have an out, though. If you’re estranged from your parents, you can appeal. Though you have to somehow prove that you have no contact with them. On the other hand, if your parents just don’t feel like paying anything, blame them, not the government.

Welcome to a lifetime burden of student loans! :mad: And good luck in school.

3

If it’s any consolation, the amount “you pay them” is (a little) less with you on your own than it would have been for a similar income were you a dependent – basically, the dependent deduction your parents used to take is now yours.

4

In Australia, when i went to college, the requirements for government assistance were quite similar.

They also, however, had a loophole where, if you were under 23 but you could prove that your parents were assholes who kicked you out and wouldn’t help with your college, you could get an exemption.

Are there similar mechanisms here in the US?

5

Thank you guys for the info. My parents are assholes with whom I have no contact. The guy on the phone, who was pretty rude to me by the way, failed to mention anything about an appeal.

Does anyone know how I would go about doing this?

One side note: My stepfather doesn’t make very much anyway, and I have two little sisters they need to support.

6

Yup. I mentioned it in my post. :wink:
MRirian, the easiest and best way to go about the appeal is to go to the Financial Aid office of the school. Or call/email if out of state. They’ll know the forms needed, requirements, etc to appeal the decision to use your parents’ info. Keep in mind, the school doesn’t give a shit where the money comes from, just that they get it. Tell them what’s up, and they’ll steer you in the right direction.

One more thing to remember, and it’s important: You’re filing an appeal to the federal government. Whatever you tell them and any reason you give in your appeal better be backed up and proven if they start asking questions. IOW, if you call your parents tonight and tell them not to call or write for awhile to prove you’re estranged, it ain’t gonna work.

I forgot to mention in my first response that I looked into this option. I seem to remember that I needed 2 or 3 notarized testimonials from 3rd parties stating, under oath, that I had no contact with my parents. And those people had to be “upstanding members of society”.

Keep us updated.

7

I was in the same boat 20 years ago when I went to college. Moved out when I was 16 and I had barely seen let alone been financed by parents for well over a year when I went to college. It really sucked; effectively the system said I was too rich for aid, but actually I was dirt-poor, living in a car I’d bought for $50.

Unfortunately, I can only offer encouraging words, not solutions. I pursued the exemption thing, but it was a big bureaucratic mess and I ended up just not applying for financial aid and took on another job instead.

Hang in there though. I’m sure you know how important this is.

8

Yes, I experienced this catch-22, and it sucked. Why was it a catch-22? While I wasn’t estranged from them, my parents wouldn’t pay for my schooling (and I should state for the record that I don’t have a problem with that). However, while I lived 5000 miles away from them, rarely spoke to them, hadn’t seen them in 2 or 3 years, and supported myself, I did not qualify for financial aid – the fact that I was paying my own way immediately put me out of range of receiving financial aid. (I should note that it is possible/likely there were some options I did not explore; I did not know what they were and still don’t.)

In my own case, I received an inheritance that allowed me to switch to part time work/part time school. At the end of that year, my income was low enough to qualify. If it weren’t for that, I don’t think I ever would’ve gotten my degree. I don’t know what to say for others in this situation, but I offer my best wishes for your future success.

9

I got screwed on financial aid when I started grad school. The year before I started school, I was working full-time, but when I went back to school, of course I couldn’t work that much. So they calculated the amount of financial aid based on my full-time income, when I made less than half that. Now, I know some people can work 40 hours a week and go to school, but I need to get more than two hours of sleep a night, so that just wasn’t happening. I think the financial aid system needs to be revised to take into account that more people are going to school when they’re older and don’t have financial support from their parents.

Good luck with school, MRirian!

ME

10

Y’know, it’s money that makes me wonder when I get to the /fun/ part of college on which people seem to look so fondly.

I’ve been living with my mother and going to a community college while working, 'cause it’s just cheaper that way and I’m a big ol cheapskate. And in fall of this year, I’ll be transferring to a 4-year university. Which will be great! I get out of this shithole town! Finally! A life! Happy, yay!

Warning: The following rant is rated GrrraarrghhhhRAGEgrrrsmash!!!111onetyone for Resentment, Anger and General Grouchiness

Oh, wait, except not. Because of money. When do we get to the part when I don’t feel like I could use some /1c0d3n ch33p?

Since I’ve only lived with my mom, she’s the one They look at for determining aid. Basically, our finances were kinda in the shitter for several years.

And yet, somehow, They have decided that my EFC is upwards of $3k.

That’s great, why don’t I just tell Mom to run out back and SHIT IT OUT?! :mad:

Sure, my dad can send me some money, but he’ll only send what he’s sending me now for the community college… about a thousand or so bucks a year. Oh, and he wants me to live at home to save money. That’s great, why don’t I /never/ learn how to be my own person and not RFBMom’s Little Girl? Oh yeah, and when you divide up the cost of housing by week, and compare it to how much gas my gas-guzzliing POS sucks down, commuting would cost about the same! So there nyeah ptthhhbt!

I don’t even know if I can take out the entirety of my tuition in loans in my own name, because there’s no way my mom would get approved for parent loans – nor would I ever in (your favorite huge number) years ask her to try.

breathes in…breathes out… All better. Hey, this Pit thing works nicely. :>

11

How are your grades in CC now? Good enough to earn a scholarship to a 4-year school? What kind of tuition are you looking at? You’ll qualify for student loans as long as you have no drug convictions or felonies. Is there a cheaper school available? Do you want to go to school to live outside your mom’s home or is the education more important than your address?

12

It was the same way when I went to college, and it really sucks. I never understood the logic behind somehow deciding that your parents income had anything to do with your tuition. Sure, some people had parents who were rich enough and had the desire to pay for college. For me and most of my friends, if our parents got any extra cash it went to pay for their own expenses, not mine. And there wasn’t shit I could do about it.

At one point during college, I was lending my parents money, and I still couldn’t get any financial aid. I had a small inheritance when I was 13, and had invested the money to pay for college. Meanwhile, my Dad’s business was forced into bankruptcy during the economic downturn in the early 80s. My parents were still recovering when I went to school starting in 1987; when I started receiving my college money, I gave a lot of it to them to cover various expenses, and they in turn paid it back to me on a monthly basis (they paid my rent, if I remember correctly).

Through all this, the financial aid office insisted that my parents had enough cash to pay for the tuition and living expenses that my inheritance didn’t cover. My cash covered tuition, and that was about it. So I ended up working at least 30 hours a week to cover my living expenses, and going to school full time.

I managed, but it wasn’t fun. In retrospect I should have taken out some student loans (many are available regardless of need) and worked fewer hours. At the time I was terrified of credit, having lived through my parent’s turn from being pretty well off to scraping to get by each month due to the bankruptcy that was mainly caused by the bank deciding to call in business loans early. I sure would have liked some of those Pell Grants that became instantly available when I reached the magic age of 23.

13

I was in a similar situation, and I agree. I worked 20 hours a week all through college instead of taking out student loans. It was doable, but since I had a fairly time-intensive homework load for my major it wasn’t fun. I’d recommend not hestitating to take out student loans if it will mean the difference between being able to relax and learn vs. burning out or working so much you don’t have a chance to do any more than just get by.

14

It’s not good on either side. I have been an independent student since 2001 when I got married, and I still can’t get much in the way of student aid. My EFC (ya know, for my family of one) this year is $959. That may seem low, but considering I made less than $9000 last year, and couldn’t even have afforded to live on my own, that’s a hell of a lot of money I will never have to use for things like school.

So I am stuck with the prospect of working full time and attending school full time to qualify for the Pell grants at the little community college, and hopefully keeping my marks high enough to earn the HOPE scholarship. Then I can transfer to a real school, that has the degree I want, and still work full time and go to class full time to maintain eligibility for that. I can kiss sleep goodbye.

15

Grades, meh… my GPA is only 3.182. The tution is about 5k a year, and then another 5k(ish) for room and board. I haven’t been able to find another school in VA that’s significantly cheaper. And I’d rate getting an education and getting an identity as equal priorities.

16

I don’t work, and my husband makes ~$50k a year. On that we have two kids, our mortgage, and debt up to our eyeballs. The government has decided I have to pay $9000 a year to get an education. Add to that childcare for when I’m in class, and all I can afford is two classes at a time at the local community college. I figure I might graduate by the time my kids are in high school.

17

The government really wants to keep us stupid.

That, or my other theory, which is that they want more kids to join the military to pay for school.

18

Neither of those. The government just presumes that families in most cases ought to contribute directly to the cost of post-secondary education before students dip into the well of taxpayer money (What, you think you’re the only taxpayer here or something? Guess what most people’s answer is when they ponder how much “they’ll give me.”). There is an exception for students who no longer functionally have a family as appears to be the case for you.

But the very first Google hit for “fafsa” returns the government’s FAFSA website, where you can find the student guide which explains some of the programs and has a discussion of dependency status for students estranged from their parents on page 11. This stuff isn’t exactly a state secret.

19

Well, you can’t tell me the government doesn’t at least *take advantage * of the fact that school costs so much, as a tactic to get people to sign up for the armed forces. I, just like every other high school junior and senior, got swamped with letters and phone calls trying to get me to join. I see ads all over TV, the internet, inside schools, etc. The number one persuasion tool? Well, most of them start out with “Need money for college?” or “College is expensive these days…”

I definitely wouldn’t put it past them to be behind it to some extent.

20

Well, actually I can. The Feds don’t determine tuition cost nor do they determine graduation requirements. (How many of us had to take required classes that had absolutely nothing to do with the field of study? Big reason why it now takes an average of 5 years to graduate than the 4 our parents did.)

You’re either pitting the Feds for not offering universal post-secondary education, or your pitting the schools for charging such outrageous tuitions. At least, that’s what it looks like from here. Fill me in if I’m missing something.