I’m not ignoring evidence. The people who enlist into the USMC, including those who enlist into the DEP, are members of the USMC until they are discharged from that branch. They’re even assigned a pay grade of the USMC. “Recruit” isn’t a pay grade, nor is it a rank. So the USMC has a tradition of waiting until sometime during or after initial training to call someone a Marine as a morale building thing. Tell you what…enlist into the USMC, commit a serious crime while you’re in basic training. The USMC will, of course, try you just like you’re a Marine for one very good reason. Care to guess what that reason is?
You did, in fact, enlist. Do you recall what that nifty document was that put you into the DEP? It’s called an enlistment contract.
Neither is “Marine.” A DER is a poolee; when they arrive at boot camp, stand on the yellow footprint and take the Oath, they’re officially a Private and a service member (and eligible for my program’s services, despite the fact that they have been an active duty service member for all of 30 seconds), though they will refer to themselves only as ‘Recruit.’
But DERs haven’t gotten to boot camp yet- this is the crux of our point. The DER commits a crime, the USMC isn’t going to come after them under the UCMJ because they are not beholden to it yet; they do exactly what they did in this case and cut ties. If the subject of the OP hadn’t shown up at MEPS on his contract date, they wouldn’t have gone looking for him. People change their minds all the time between signing on the dotted line and getting on the bus; if the service branches went after all of them they’d be doing nothing else. From here:
I just thought of something- are you hanging on to the term ‘discharge’ as evidence that the DER is a member of the military? Because if so, I can see where the confusion is coming from. DERs aren’t discharged; they’re given an entry-level separation, which can be done without the presence or request of the DER (the USMC likes you to come in and chat with them rather than not show up, because part of their process is a counseling to try to talk you out of leaving). Separations aren’t discharges.
As an example of what bobkitty is saying, which may or may not be exactly as the Marines -v- US Army/Navy/Air Force: I enlisted in Army in early 80’s through Delayed Entry Program (a few months wait) for the MOS I wanted). I received a limited physical by a ‘recruitee screener’ (no idea of actual title) at recruiter’s office to make sure there were no obvious disqualifiers, mostly an in-depth medical-based interview. IIRC, the delay was also to process my Top Secret clearance application for said MOS/job.
On my day to officially enlist/enter ‘real’ service of US Army through the MEPS (Military Entry Processing Station, IIRC) section in San Antonio, TX, I got thorough physical and whatnots, then the last thing of the day was the actual raising hand and swearing the oath, then to a hotel with everyone else for departure next morning. I remember clearly, that until the oath was taken, I was called either Mr. Last-name or just last-name; no rank or service-branch mentioned whatsoever at any point. Immediately after the oath, it was “Private Last-name, get on bus number whatever to go hotel to await morning taxi ride to airport for flight to Ft Sill. Here are your papers, Private.” When the cattle-truck arrived at airport in Lawton, the dtiver addressed me as “Soldier, get in the trailer for your new life…” It was weird being in back of that thing by myself, LOL.
From my experience, I was not a ‘soldier’ (or Marine as related to thread), per se, until I took that oath. Or so it appeared by how I was handled by the various enlistment procedure ‘sections’ and personnel at MEPS prior to approval for taking the oath to serve in Armed Forces.
I believe the person of thread’s topic was a potential Marine, but not quite there yet, in so many words. It may be fair to state he was a tentative Marine (shrug).
I hate it when I’m being insulted and have to look it up on the internet. I mean, I called him an asshole, the least he could have done is call me a bitch.
Particularly if you have to look it up on Urban Dictionary. If I’m getting insulted properly, I want to have to look it up in the REAL dictionary, dammit.
You’re simply incorrect, as other people have pointed out to you. Enlistment in the DEP does not a soldier make. I never signed any binding contract, and was never in the military. If I as a member of the armed services I wouldn’t have been able to walk away by simply not going to the recruitment office anymore. Unless you think I am AWOL somehow and they haven’t gotten around to me? :smack:
I remember you being a stubborn and immune to facts on other threads, so this will be my last post on the matter.
The term means ‘white bitch who likes black dudes’. So yeah, dude is not trying to hide his racism…though strangely using ironic urban patois to do it. Hipster Troll?
It’s weird that he went full retard after I did a minor troll on him. I mean it was clear already that he was a stupid racist troll from his previous drivel, but I wasn’t expecting full on suicide by mod. I feel like I have played a role in diminishing the entertainment value of the Pit, and for that I apologize.
Many many MANY moons ago I also enlisted under the delayed entry program. I also changed my mind and backed out. However, I was enlisted and received a formal discharge. I went by bus directly from the recruiting office to a large intake center. There I was given a physical and sworn in. Back on the bus and home.
.
2 months later my circumstances had changed. They called me, and I told them no. They threatened me with jail and I told them to go for it. They backed down and told me that I could never join again. I was fine with that. I received a formal discharge in the mail. I don’t consider myself ever having been a member of the armed forces.
I think the critical question, from a federal POV, is if you accumulate credit toward retirement. I know that as a Peace Corps volunteer, during the training period before you are sworn in you are very explicitly not a Peace Corps volunteer. You receive some benefits (your living allowance, health services, student loan deferral, etc.), but you do not receive any credit for federal service during that period- the clock starts running when you are sworn in. The bureaucracy is very careful to always differentiate between trainees and Volunteers, and trainees are reminded not to refer to themselves as Volunteers until they are sworn in.
I imagine it’s the same throughout the federal government. It’s not real until you are sworn in.
**Monty: **I hold you in high regard, in general, and not responding in a negative/hostile manner to you - but it is you that are wrong and I would like to ‘fight the ignorance’, politely put anyways.
Here is the wiki description of what the DEP actually is, and a few real-life examples have been provided as well. A significant point from that short article is “*While those who join the DEP have signed an enlistment agreement to report on a certain date for training, they are not yet a member of the United States Armed Forces until they enlist in the regular component of their selected branch on their ship date.”
*(my underlining, fwiw) A reference-site/cite is here, for what it is worth, with more details.
I truly hope this helps clarify the point being argued of that motherfuckin’ racist shitrag that was denied his chance at becoming a member of the US military. Good riddance of such persons. IME, and afaik, the Armed Forces do not and will not tolerate racism, as a basic priniciple of service, in today’s era and neither when I served a REMF-job (mid 80-s) where 6 of the 8 soldiers in my duty ‘office’ were soldiers ‘of color’ and I NEVER saw their skin color being a problem for them regarding their service or potential for afvancement(s). I could give details of one ‘white’ guy in my Basic platoon who was forced to repeat Basic because he called one of his squad’s members the ‘N’ word angrily about a week before Basic ‘graduation’ to either regular duty or AIT (Advanced Individual Training) school, but certainly not necessary.
The USMC did what I believe to be the absolutely correct thing in refusing the asshat’s de facto enlistment - Bravo! And I hope this helps the factual misunderstanding of what the DEP really is and how it relates to that racist’s pitting
ETA: even sven’s last sentence just above sums it rather well, IMHO
