Bill Maher: "We SHOULD blame China."

[SlackerInc]

As usual, Bill is spot on, a lonely voice of reason in the wilderness (Sam Harris is too, but Bill is funnier):

[QUOTE] You can't yell at someone for breaking a rule you just made up. Scientists, who are generally pretty liberal, have been naming diseases after the places they came from for a very long time. Zika is from the Zika River, Ebola from the Ebola Forest. Hantavirus, the Hantan River. There's the West Nile virus, and Guinea worm, and Rocky Mountain spotted fever, and of course the Spanish flu. MERS stands for Middle Eastern Respiratory Syndrome--it's plastered all over airports and no one blogs abougt it. So why should China get a pass?[...]

Jesus fucking Christ, can’t we even have a pandemic without getting offended? When they named Lyme disease after a town in Connecticut, the locals didn’t get all “ticked off”.[…]

This isn’t about vilifying a culture, this is about facts. This is about life and death.[…]

The PC police say it’s racist to attack any cultural practice different from our own. I say liberalism lost its way when it started thinking like that, and pretended that forcing a woman to wear this [image shows women in burqas] was just a “different way” rather than an abhorrent human rights violation. It’s not racist to point out that eating bats is batshit crazy! In 2007, researchers at the University of Hong Kong wrote: “The presence of a large reservoir of SARS Cov-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic animals in southern China, is a time bomb.”[…]

So when people say “What if people hear ‘Chinese virus’ and blame China?” the answer is, we SHOULD blame China. Not Chinese-Americans. But we can’t stop telling the truth because racists get the wrong idea.[…]

Sorry, Americans: we’re going to have to ask you to keep two ideas in your head at the same time. This has nothing to do with Asian-Americans, and it has everything to do with China. We can’t afford the luxury anymore of non-judginess toward a country with habits that kill millions of people everywhere. Because this isn’t the first time. SARS came from China, and the bird flu, and the Hong Kong flu, the Asian flu. Viruses come from China like shortstops come from the Dominican Republic.

If they were selling nuclear suitcases at these wet markets, would we be so non-judgemental? And isn’t this pretty close to what they are selling? And the next one could be even worse![…]

I hope, if someone told Americans that eating Hot Pockets could cause a worldwide pandemic, that we would have the good sense to stop doing it. Although I wouldn’t bet on it.
[/QUOTE]

[Ashtura]

Well, he got the recession he wanted. I wonder if he’s happy about that?

[SlackerInc]

I think he was looking for more of a normal recession, in which people could still go out in public.

[russian_heel]

I loved Bill but I would counter with:

1. I don’t remember black people getting physically attacked for Ebola, Middle-eastern people for SARS. But there have been several hate crimes perpetuated on Asians in the US over the past few weeks.

2. Should we eat bats? Maybe or maybe not. When will Mad Cow Disease transfer from human steak eaters host to another human? The last I checked we raise and kill pigs for food—ever hear of the Swine Flu?

Raising turkeys or chickens? Ever heard of Bird Flu?

Is the Chinese Government guilty of a coverup? The evidence says yes. Should the Chinese be killing pangolins, importing rhino horns, and committing other atrocities against often endangered wildlife for unproven medical “remedies”? Absolutely.

But think about this while devouring that 14 ounce ribeye from a cow that had its throat slit after being shocked into submission followed by a wash down of Alex Jones vitamins while watching OUR President spout one lie after another about this virus: are we that much better?

[Elendil_s_Heir]

@russian_heel

…Should the Chinese be killing pangolins, importing rhino horns, and committing other atrocities against often endangered wildlife for unproven medical “remedies”? Absolutely.

…not.

[GIGObuster]

Seems that the OP and Maher missed this thread:

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=892076

The best reply to the nonsense from Maher is that yes, the Rulers in China deserve the blame for being incompetents and for trying to hide mistakes early on.

Unfortunately as the tread showed, terrible rulers in China had a point about the naming of the virus, the naming of the virus is actually based on an agreement made back in 2015 at the WHO. Someone must had pointed that to Trump when even he decided to drop the “unofficial” name of the virus.

As for not using the “China” name anywhere in a virus name, the sad reality is that Chinese Americans have seen a rise in racism, because of reasons like that is that the agreement in 2015 came into being. An agreement that the USA is a signer of too since it came from the WHO.

And yes, the naming conventions of viruses and diseases of the past still have an effect that continues to shape the present.

http://thenationshealth.aphapublications.org/content/45/6/1.1

In Old Lyme, Connecticut, John Sieviec, MSRS, chief sanitarian at the Old Lyme Health Department, has been diagnosed more than once with the tick-borne disease that was named after his community after a rash of cases were identified in the 1970s. Sieviec said there is a lingering stigma that visitors to Old Lyme will get sick with Lyme disease. But he noted it can be tricky to educate people about Lyme disease prevention without perpetuating misperceptions about his community.

“It’s a difficult balance,” he said. “But it’s something that’s always with us.”

[SlackerInc]

@russian_heel

I loved Bill but I would counter with:

1. I don’t remember black people getting physically attacked for Ebola, Middle-eastern people for SARS. But there have been several hate crimes perpetuated on Asians in the US over the past few weeks.

2. Should we eat bats? Maybe or maybe not. When will Mad Cow Disease transfer from human steak eaters host to another human? The last I checked we raise and kill pigs for food—ever hear of the Swine Flu?

Raising turkeys or chickens? Ever heard of Bird Flu?

Is the Chinese Government guilty of a coverup? The evidence says yes. Should the Chinese be killing pangolins, importing rhino horns, and committing other atrocities against often endangered wildlife for unproven medical “remedies”? Absolutely.

I’m going to hazard a guess that you meant “absolutely not”.
As for #1, German-Americans got attacked during WWI. That doesn’t mean we should have said it was totally copacetic that they sank the Lusitania. Concentration camps for Japanese-Americans was wrong in WWII, but without those you can guarantee that they would have gotten attacked by white Americans. That would not mean FDR should have declared Pearl Harbor was not Japan’s fault!

[SlackerInc]

@GIGObuster

Unfortunately as the tread showed, terrible rulers in China had a point about the naming of the virus, the naming of the virus is actually based on an agreement made back in 2015 at the WHO.

As for not using the “China” name anywhere in a virus name, the sad reality is that Chinese Americans have seen a rise in racism, because of reasons like that is that the agreement in 2015 came into being. An agreement that the USA is a signer of too since it came from the WHO.

WHO is quite obviously in China’s pocket and should be dissolved in favor of a new organization that acts as a “world health organization” that does its job and doesn’t suck up to the Chinese government (making absurd claims about China’s wonderful “transparency” and treating Taiwan horribly).

But yes, it may have the effect of spurring some racist attacks. Bill acknowledges this and countered that “we can’t stop telling the truth because racists get the wrong idea.” Hear, hear.

ETA: Mmmm…ribeye…

[GIGObuster]

@SlackerInc

I’m going to hazard a guess that you meant “absolutely not”.
As for #1, German-Americans got attacked during WWI. That doesn’t mean we should have said it was totally copacetic that they sank the Lusitania. Concentration camps for Japanese-Americans was wrong in WWII, but without those you can guarantee that they would have gotten attacked by white Americans. That would not mean FDR should have declared Pearl Harbor was not Japan’s fault!

I have to wonder who are the ones that do willfully ignore the early incompetence of the Chinese rulers just because they point out that the bastards still were correct about the naming conventions.

And regarding Pearl Harbor, the commander at Pearl Harbor was relieved of his duties, while there was a lot of blame to go around, even as word was out that Japan was likely to make a first strike against the United States, Kimmel took no extraordinary actions at Pearl Harbor. Point being that, sure, Japan was responsible; but that does not mean that the ones that failed to be prepared get to be off the hook.

[GIGObuster]

@SlackerInc

WHO is quite obviously in China’s pocket and should be dissolved in favor of a new organization that acts as a “world health organization” that does its job and doesn’t suck up to the Chinese government (making absurd claims about China’s wonderful “transparency” and treating Taiwan horribly).

Unless China has a time machine, this point is not countering the fact that the naming convention was changed in 2015.

@SlackerInc

But yes, it may have the effect of spurring some racist attacks. Bill acknowledges this and countered that “we can’t stop telling the truth because racists get the wrong idea.” Hear, hear.

ETA: Mmmm…ribeye…

One of the reasons for the change in the naming conventions was precisely to not allow the racists to get that opening. Trump had to conform, and I bet he hates that he had to drop his pet name for the virus.

[Ashtura]

@SlackerInc

I think he was looking for more of a normal recession, in which people could still go out in public.

Then he shouldn’t have used the Monkey’s Paw. Wishing for evil to get what you want is bad mojo! The most messed up part of the curse is Trump is still going to win!

[slash2k]

Scientists, who are generally pretty liberal, have been naming diseases after the places they came from for a very long time. Zika is from the Zika River, Ebola from the Ebola Forest. Hantavirus, the Hantan River. There’s the West Nile virus, and Guinea worm, and Rocky Mountain spotted fever, and of course the Spanish flu.

Um, the Spanish flu did NOT come from Spain (instead it maybe originated in France, maybe Kansas, maybe Austria, maybe even China); the name Spanish flu came about because Spain had no wartime censorship and the newspapers could report what was happening there. The first outbreak of what was later identified as Ebola occurred in Nzara, Sudan (now in South Sudan), and the second in Yambuku, Zaire (now Democratic Republic of the Congo); neither is on the Ebola River. Guinea-worm disease was known to the ancient Egyptians, and the nematode that causes it was endemic across a broad swathe of the tropics and subtropics from India to the Atlantic; there’s no reason to believe it originated in Guinea.

Zika and West Nile and hantavirus and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever I will give you, but names often owe more to chance than any real attempt to name diseases for “the place they came from.”

[UltraVires]

@SlackerInc

WHO is quite obviously in China’s pocket and should be dissolved in favor of a new organization that acts as a “world health organization” that does its job and doesn’t suck up to the Chinese government (making absurd claims about China’s wonderful “transparency” and treating Taiwan horribly).

But yes, it may have the effect of spurring some racist attacks. Bill acknowledges this and countered that “we can’t stop telling the truth because racists get the wrong idea.” Hear, hear.

ETA: Mmmm…ribeye…

This. China wants to be a totalitarian communist government that suppresses their own peoples’ freedom of speech and press. We may dispute that as a sovereign nation they have the rightful power to do so. I disagree as it violates natural law.

But in any event, it is entirely their fucking fault for suppressing information in the name of their own communist inspired “state secrecy” to make the government look better. You reap what you sow. It amazes me that the Dems almost nominated a guy who has praised these types of societies.

And the WHO should be defunded. In fact, the United Nations should be defunded. I’m not for revoking membership for piddling little differences, but a grossly totalitarian state should not have a voice in the future of the free world. Full stop. We can have difference on the death penalty and gun control, but if you have a national firewall to prevent your people from reading stuff on the internet, or throw people in jail for criticising the government, the you are right the fuck out of any conversation on world policy.

And we should not suppress that truth in this country because a few racist assholes do bad things.

[russian_heel]

@russian_heel

I loved Bill but I would counter with:

1. I don’t remember black people getting physically attacked for Ebola, Middle-eastern people for SARS. But there have been several hate crimes perpetuated on Asians in the US over the past few weeks.

2. Should we eat bats? Maybe or maybe not. When will Mad Cow Disease transfer from human steak eaters host to another human? The last I checked we raise and kill pigs for food—ever hear of the Swine Flu?

Raising turkeys or chickens? Ever heard of Bird Flu?

Is the Chinese Government guilty of a coverup? The evidence says yes. Should the Chinese be killing pangolins, importing rhino horns, and committing other atrocities against often endangered wildlife for unproven medical “remedies”? Absolutely.

But think about this while devouring that 14 ounce ribeye from a cow that had its throat slit after being shocked into submission followed by a wash down of Alex Jones vitamins while watching OUR President spout one lie after another about this virus: are we that much better?

I did mean “absolutely not”.

FFS.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SlackerInc]

@GIGObuster

Unless China has a time machine, this point is not countering the fact that the naming convention was changed in 2015.

I don’t believe Bill is insisting that the official name be changed to “Chinese virus” (that would run into the other problem he pointed out, that there are way way too many Chinese viruses to use such a generic name). Rather, he’s pushing back on the histrionical shaming and tut-tutting that occurs whenever people use that kind of terminology in an informal way. And I endorse his pushback.

[CarnalK]

Can someone explain under what method China has the WHO under its thumb?

[Ravenman]

@CarnalK

Can someone explain under what method China has the WHO under its thumb?

I think it is just whinging that they aren’t under American thumbs.

[RitterSport]

To be analogous, shouldn’t Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever be called American Fever? Lyme disease should be American Disease? Conversely, this disease would be called Wuhan coronavirus or Hubei virus or something, right? Or, blame the nearest river.

Anyway, I predict that this thread will go as follows:

People will claim China isn’t getting the blame and has the WHO under its command. Reasonable people will point out that the naming convention was changed five years ago and that the USA agreed to that change. Rinse and repeat.

Hey, OP, who isn’t blaming China for this outbreak and their initial bungling of the response? They definitely shouldn’t have suppressed the doctors that were initially involved with the response and they should probably close down the wet markets. However, getting Americans of east Asian ancestry shunned and beat up isn’t going to solve those problems, is it?

[RTFirefly]

Yeah, we should blame China for…what? For being as fertile a ground as central Africa for viruses to adapt from animal to human hosts, due to its wide variety of fauna, but being better connected to the wider world than central Africa is?

Clearly they should pave the wilder areas of their nation, and put up suburban housing tracts and shopping malls.

[HMS_Irruncible]

Spanish Flu didn’t originate in Spain. It was first reported in Spanish newspapers because they weren’t under wartime censorship.

HIV originated in Africa, but we don’t call it the African Immune Virus.

Syphilis originated in America, but we don’t call it the American Crotch Rot.

Funny how Mad Cow Disease never got slandered as British Brain Rot.

I could go on and on, but I’ve made the point that, we don’t always name diseases for where we found them. In fact sometimes we name them after the wrong places! (Spanish Flu).

That’s why scientists invented a new naming standard in 2015. There’s no reason we shouldn’t use it.

The only reason to reject the new scientific naming standard is that white people insist that they hold judging authority of which people and places are filthy and unhygienic and guilty of plague-spreading.