I just might go to that debate. I grew up in the area and my mother still lives about 8 miles from there. I’ve been tempted to go into the Creation Museum (for a good laugh) but didn’t want to support such a bogus enterprise.
As I was reading this thread, I was thinking, “How can I sneak in?”
When scientists debate they assume a certain level of honesty on the other side - something lacking in creationists. If Nye comes as an entertainer more than a scientist and takes it to Hamm’s level then we can have something. Make fun of Hamm’s positions. An academic scientist would have a hard time saying “you’re lying again, Ken,” but Nye can. Work the audience not the facts.
Closely reasoned arguments are for paper. Sound bites and jokes work in this kind of debate.
The answer is obviously the Chewbacca Defense.
If Chewbacca lives on Endor, then creationism isn’t scientific.
Duh. Everyone familiar with the creation/evolution “debate” knows that already.
Is there any way Nye even could extricate himself at this point? More generally, is there a useful answer to “they’re afraid to debate because they know we’ll win”?
(The true answer is that scientific truth, as opposed to political truth, isn’t settled by contests of rhetoric between the champions for the respective sides, but this answer is not useful.)
“Yes, because as we all know, creationism always wins debates in scientific environments, courthouses, and other places that matter”?
Hmm, not poignant enough.
“That’s not really possible because you lost the debate over 100 years ago”?
Better, still not quite there…
“More just afraid of having potential employers look at my resume, see ‘debated with creationists seriously’, and thinking ‘god, what a dumbass, he actually took those morons seriously’, and then not hiring me as a result”?
…Needs work. Help me out here.
Is Ham a YEC? And does that mean there will be no discussion of ID theory?
Maybe he’s just trolling? That’s the only point I could see in it.
Well, he is first and foremost, a comedian.
Bill Nye or Ken Ham?
Bill Nye’s career is largely based on education. I suspect this is, in large part, a “publicity stunt” so to speak. Not to promote a show or book or movie, and I don’t think he’s under any delusions that the opponent will play fair or change his mind. I suspect he’s doing this largely to support scientific inquiry and standing up to unscientific claims. He’s doing this to help educate people that don’t have their minds made up, and give people courage to confront their peers, not convince people that already are sure the Flying Spaghetti Monster created the firmament that they’re wrong.
“Debates” of this sort are useless and counterproductive for rational, evidence-based folks, with the possible exception of one where there’s a skilled moderator who will not allow Gish galloping or other sleazy tactics.
A counterpart is the “challenge” where a woo promoter supposedly offers a monetary prize for proving or demonstrating something (i.e. a “vaccine challenge” like this recent example). The “rules” are generally rigged to make it impractical or impossible for entrants.
It’s best to ignore this nonsense and instead “challenge” the woo crowd to publish or post facts to support their positions - and then devastate them with logic at your convenience.
Good luck to Nye though, venturing into the lions’ den of stupidity.
Aron Ra says it all:
Eh, given that this is the first time I’ve heard the guys name in a decade, I suspect Nye’s doing it at least partly to promote himself as a skeptic/entertainer (has anyone coined “skepti-tainment” yet?)
The ‘creotard’ thing is just lame anyway, but for the record, we don’t NEED HELP FOR OUR SIDE. Science pretty much wins this with its hands tied behind its back.
Both sides will claim victory. There is no other outcome, barring an unlikely meltdown in the middle of it.
The Creationists will claim that Ham clearly explained how God created the Earth and if you don’t believe him, it’s because you’re being influenced by Satan or something.
Everyone else will say that Nye clearly explained how the Earth came to be created and only the most ardent fundamentalist will deny the facts.
It doesn’t win if no one believes it, or if states pass laws saying it can’t be taught to kids, or if even more “blue laws” are passed to enforce religious requirements, or if medical studies can’t get funded (or get actually outlawed) because they “step on God’s domain”, or…
Being right isn’t enough. I want a world in which we can use the truth, not just know it. And in which “skeptical thinker” isn’t automatically equated with either “evil” or “boring.”