Bill O'Reilly, Taxes and Medicare...Left, Right, Center...What is the best plan?

O’Reilly will not berate guests who are important, from what I have seen. Or, at least, those who he judges to be important.

He would not scream at Hillory Clinton or anyone else of that stature, no matter what their politics.

He would force her to answer tough questions probably, though.

The people who get yelled at are usually no-names. Or lawyers for those in the news cases of the day.

But, overall he is “easier” on conservatives than liberals because he tends to be a conservative guy. There isn’t anything wrong with this. It’s not NPR, with your tax dollars paying for it. If you don’t like it then change the channel. What I object to more is the people who resort to calling him a liar when he clearly isn’t one.

Ahh, I know. I actually referred to this in my post when I said cable news has smaller viewership than the networks.

I know this also. I actually said in my post that it is impossible to prove either way. I retracted it as a factual claim and clearly stated that it was my opinion.

Is english not your first language?

I had not seen your response when I posted, Debaser. Sorry.

No prob. Sorry for that last line in my post. Didn’t mean to be snarky.

I just tend to get defensive when outnumbered. :smiley:

He didn’t force GWB to answer tough questions.

That’s fairly arrogant. All of his guests deserve the right to speak and be heard. If he asks a question he should let them answer. Instead he berates guests who don’t toe his right wing line.

That he berates anyone makes him a scummy sham of a journalist.

I doubt it. He has no tact.

And that makes being a jack ass okay?

There is when your network calls itself “Fair and Balanced” and you call your show a “No Spin Zone.” His show is full of spin – right wing spin.

Please forgive my as I have just gotten back online by securing another 1000 free minutes with a republicanesque promise of personal fiscal responsibility just as soon as these minuets come to a close. So I’ll not dawdle as I have around 995 minuets to go before I am hoplessly slapped back to the musty rank of bleeding heart liberal. I love the SD site and have been a sporadic poster for the last 5 years or so, and it is downright wonderful to see the same, if not even higher level of intelligent discorse on the board. Thank you for still being here.

O’Riley is a bamboozler on the scale of PT Barnum if nothing else. What really amazes is that the guy continues to garner national credence from blatently baiting the issues while being nothing less a shuckster than Jerry Springer, and with the same amount of sincerity of Maury Povich. I just know the guy is laughing his way to the bank and back. I believe that he conservative blue collar types in my area - who make up the lion’s share of O’Riley’s ( as well as all the other right wing media fire breathers) audience, is more a result of a deteriorating economic and social footing than any true political agenda. These guys increasingly have to devote more of their cognizant hours scheming just to keep their kids fed and clothed, and the slobbering and hateful soundbites O’Riley offers up gives them a quick and easy root to pull to explain away the shit in their lives. As denominators go, O’Riley dosen’t require a lot of thought, and now that blaming blacks, uppity women, gays and foreigner (except for them A-Rabs of course) is no longer fashionable in public circles, it leaves them polysexual unpatriotic godless liberals to safely square in the cross hairs. And I also believe the politically savvy conservatives around here, (as well as everywhere else), view this guy in no better a light than his detractors, they just get a kick out of seeing some loud mouth assault the opposition with the same grace, thoughtfulness and vigor of a third grader.

                                                                                   Rand

Not sure why no one’s giving the full story on Bill’s lying related to the Polk/Peabody affair. It wasn’t just that Bill confused the Polk award with a Peabody (an honest mistake, we’ll assume), but that

  1. he’d claimed that “they” at Inside Edition had received the award when it was actually awarded a year after he left the show and

  2. after learning of his mistake confusing the two awards, he then claimed he’d never referred to winning a Peabody in the first place.

Making a mistake would be one thing, but then lying about it when you obviously know better is pretty scummy.

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spectrum wrote:
That’s fairly arrogant.
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I don’t think even his ardent supporters would say he’s not arrogant.:slight_smile: A lot of his outbursts seem rather scripted. I’d guess that he figures a lot of people like to see him beat up on some of the guests, as long as it’s not someone who is generally respected. I’ve seen him interview Susan Sarandan and Jeanine Garafolo (lefties of a high dgree) and keep it very civil, so there’s no doubt that he doesn’t simply “have it in for the left”. But he doesn’t have much patience with lawyers, as Debaser pointed out.

Okay, Debaser, here’s a question: If you don’t feel that these things justify calling O’Reilly a liar, wil you at least admit that his logic is severely wanting. For example, here is the quote about the names he was called:

Now, based on the evidence we’ve been able to dig up so far related to this, do you really think we’ve uncovered any major evidence of liberal bias or lack of “fairness or nonpartisanship” on the part of news organizations? Do you not see several gaps of logic in his statement here?

And, as for the Talking Points memo that started this thread, do you believe that the current month’s economic expansion really constitutes dramatic proof that those who were complaining about Bush’s tax cuts being tilted toward the rich, fiscally irresponsible, and not the most cost-effective way to stimulate the economy have been proven wrong on any of these points?

Is this the sort of logic that passes for intelligent thought these days?

Yes. It took me a while to look up the numbers, but here are the numbers I have gleaned from Table 8.2 of the Historical Tables on the U.S. Federal budget available here. What I am reporting is the increase in percent from the previous year in real terms (i.e., constant dollars). The first column is for all discretionary spending while the second is non-defense discretionary spending:

1980: +4.4 +5.0
1981: +0.5 -4.1
1982: -1.8 -12.5
1983: +3.6 -1.5
1984: +1.1 +0.4
1985: +5.5 +3.8
1986: +3.3 -1.9
1987: -0.8 -5.0
1988: +2.1 +3.8
1989: +2.1 +3.3
1990: -0.5 +5.0
1991: +1.8 +1.4
1992: -3.1 +4.8
1993: -1.5 +2.9
1994: -2.0 +2.0
1995: -1.8 +1.8
1996: -5.3 -4.6
1997: +0.8 +1.5
1998: -0.6 +0.3
1999: +1.5 +3.1
2000: +4.2 +4.6
2001: +3.4 +4.9
2002: +10.6 +9.9
2003: +10.6 +6.2 (estimate) … I believe this has now gone somewhat higher

[Note, I did the percent calcs by hand since I’m pretty ignorant with Excel and didn’t even bother to download it in that form, so I can’t guarantee every figure. If people want to look at numbers not in real terms, those are presented in Table 8.1 of the Historical Tables.]

As you can see, these numbers demonstrate that the rise in both the total and non-defense discretionary budget over both of the past two years has been quite unprecedented since at least 1980. It is an interesting contrast to Reagan’s first budget (FY 1982) in which he increased defense and sharply cut non-defense, with a 1.8% drop to the total.

Another interesting point: Between 1980 and 2000, the total and non-defense discretionary spending only went up a total of 8.8% and 7.6% in real terms, which is way less than our real GDP increased over that time I’m sure. So, it is not like discretionary spending has been out of control in general. Mandatory and net interest, however, have risen a lot faster (84.8% and 122.6%, respectively over the 1980 to 2000 timeframe).

I agree that monthly economic jumps are probably nothing to get escited about. But I thought this might be a good starting point to debate the economics in the OP.

I’m not sure I understand this analysis. Are you saying that a temporary spending binge is a better way to build the economy long term? Or are you saying that money in the hands of wealthy people does not participate in the economy?

It took me a while to get back to you on this point…But yes, the budgeting process does this. In fact, if you go to the White House FY2004 budget page and download the “Historical Tables”, you will find Table 8.1 which shows the division with numbers reported in actual dollars and Table 8.2 which shows it in real terms (i.e., constant dollars). Here, I’ll take the numbers in real terms and give the increase in percent from the previous year. The first column gives it for the total discretionary spending and the second column for the non-defense discretionary spending:

1980: +4.4 +5.0
1981: +0.5 -4.1
1982: -1.8 -12.5
1983: +3.6 -1.5
1984: +1.1 +0.4
1985: +5.5 +3.8
1986: +3.3 -1.9
1987: -0.8 -5.0
1988: +2.1 +3.8
1989: +2.1 +3.3
1990: -0.5 +5.0
1991: +1.8 +1.4
1992: -3.1 +4.8
1993: -1.5 +2.9
1994: -2.0 +2.0
1995: -1.8 +1.8
1996: -5.3 -4.6
1997: +0.8 +1.5
1998: -0.6 +0.3
1999: +1.5 +3.1
2000: +4.2 +4.6
2001: +3.4 +4.9
2002: +10.6 +9.9
2003: +6.2 +6.2 (estimate!!!)

Note on the 2003 number: These estimates are definitely low of how things are going to come out. For example, the +6.2% in real terms translated to an estimated +7.6% in actual dollars and, according to a Washington Post article, the total discretionary was actually running +12.5% in actual dollars, so almost +5% above the estimate.

A few interesting comments and conclusions:

(1) The rise in discretionary spending, both total and non-defense, over the last 2 budget years is indeed unprecedented since at least 1980. It contrasts, for example, with Reagan’s first budget (FY 1982) in which there was a large decrease (12.5%) in real non-defense discretionary spending and a large increase in defense for a 1.8% decrease in total discretionary spending. Of course, there may be good reasons for this…But, it is interesting.

(2) Discretionary spending has not generally been rising very rapidly in real terms. For example, from 1980 to 2000, total discretionary and non-defense discretionary spending rose by 8.8% and 7.6%, respectively…Presumably much less than the real GDP rose over that 20 year period. What has been rising more rapidly is mandatory spending and net interest (up 84.8% and 122.6% during that period, respectively).

(3) During Clinton’s 8 years in office, the change in total discretionary and non-defense discretionary spending in real terms was –0.1% and +14.4%.

Whoops, sorry about the double-post! My computer crashed and I thought my 1st hadn’t gone through so I rewrote the whole freakin’ thing! The second post also has a few errors in the first post corrected (such as the 2003 total discretionary spending official estimated number) and a more complete analysis.

The answer to your first question, as someone like Krugman would probably explain it (only he’d do it much better), is that when you are having a recession, you have slack in the economy and that is when government spending or tax cuts can actually help stimulate the economy. When the economy is going full tilt, such stimulation doesn’t really work…besides which, Alan Greenspan would is playing around with interest rates in order to manage the economy, i.e., the tradeoff between growth and inflation.

It is more questionable whether you can use spending or tax cuts to do other things to help the economy more long term. For example, some (especially liberal economists) would argue that government investments in things like infrastructure and education would do this. Supply-siders would argue that cuts in marginal tax rates, especially of the wealthy, would do this. As far as I know (and Krugman, who is actually an economist says the same thing I believe), there is very little if any real empirical evidence to support the supply-side notion. (Clearly at the extreme of very high taxation, you can choke the economy but no evidence that we are in that regime.)

Of course, the other disadvantage of long-term tax cuts as opposed to short term ones is they exact a heavy ongoing price in terms of the government budget and the deficit.

As for your second question, note that I said “better way to get bang for the buck” which does not translate into your extreme statement of “money in the hands of wealthy people does not participate in the economy”. Rather, it reflects the idea that poorer people spend a large fraction of each additional dollar they get whereas the rich tend to save or invest more of it. In a recession, what you need to do is to create more demand. Sure, you eventually want more investment, but businesses won’t invest in lots of new stuff just because they have more money if they don’t think there will be the demand for their products.

Another point is that, while there is precious little evidence that trickle-down economics works, it seems fairly likely that percolate-up economics will work. I.e., if you give a poor person money, he’ll go out and spend it and it will eventually be likely to end up in the hands of a wealthier person…who can then go ahead and invest it. In this case, however, two things seem better:

(1) he’ll see more demand and thus have more reason to invest it expanding his business.

(2) in the meantime, you’ve put more money into the hands of poor people who some of us think have more need for the money than the rich folks.

If you disagree with him, fine. If you don’t think his thoughts, views, or logic is intelligent then go ahead and say so.

What I am taking issue with is the fact that people on the left call him a liar when he clearly isn’t one.

So if O’Reilly quotes news stories that call him a windbag he agrees with them?

Of course not. Context.

It’s funny that there is three page long O’Reilly bashing threads about once a week on the SDMB. Meanwhile everyone here seems to be in denial that O’Reilly bashing goes on in the media, when it clearly does. Perhaps you all have been overexposed?