Biologists and/or Biology students- some questions!

In My Humble Opinion
1

Biology is a big field, and there seems to be quite a few options availible. I am enrolled in an Associates of Biology degree at my community college, originally working towards PharmD prerequisites. I have come to the realization that I simply do not have the personality necessary for working as a pharmacist. I care about people and don’t mind working with them, but just cannot deal with the customer mindset and how moody and pissy they can become. Makes me moody and pissy, and I don’t have good control over myself like my coworkers and bosses. I am contemplating going for my B.S in Biology for starters, since that is what seems to be the shortest (since I already have 46 credits for that field).

*In your experience or opinion, what is the average salary for a lab technian with just a B.S in biology? How avalible are such jobs?

*What other options are avalible for Biology B.S graduates?

*As for minors, which would leave a graduate with more options, a writing minor, a spanish minor, or a chemistry minor?

*With versatility in mind, which graduate degree program would leave the graduate with more options jobwise?

*Money isn’t the biggest issue, but do most research jobs with a Masters tend to pay at least 50k or more? How about B.S graduates?

*Difficulty wise, would it be better to go for a Doctorate or a masters? Or put another way, if it is possible for the student to get into and through a Masters program, would it be just as possible for them to make it through the PhD program?

Sorry there are so many questions, but at this point in my schooling I am starting to come to realizations about my personality and how it effects my future career choices. I don’t want to sit in an interview for a professional program like the PharmD program and lie in my interview about how I think I would make a good pharmacist. I think I would end up being one of those bitter pharmacists that ends up arrogant, angry and rude. I definately don’t want to think of myself as any of those, or corner myself into that outlook.

Definately could use a few pointers before I make any choices. I suppose going to a counciler is in order, and I will likely do so before I enroll, but some dopers input is much more valuable, IMO.

2

My Hubby has a Ph.D. in Molecular Biology; his B.S. was in Biochemistry. Personally, I’m an artist, but I can share with you what I know of his experiences.

Pharmaceutical companies probably have the greatest number of science openings, with Universities a close second. Succeeding as a researcher means having excellent writing skills (for grant applications as well as publishing), so a minor in that area could make sense. However, if you wanted to make yourself more marketable, chemistry might be a better choice. My Hubby’s company has a lot of chemists - many more of them than biologists. Including some real wingdings; I forget what this one woman’s title was, but she had a master’s in chemistry yet didn’t know how to calculate moles. Fer cryin’ out loud, I know how to do that!

If you’re interested in medical research there are a lot of options, but you probably need a Ph.D. as well as a passion for some topic or another. Getting the Ph.D. is less a matter of brain power and more a matter of stubbornness, so caring about the subject helps. Re: Master’s vs. Doctorate - actually you might find it easier to just go for the Ph.D. because there’s more funding for grad students who are going all the way. You can always stop with a Master’s if that’s what you choose. What you’ll want to look for is someone doing research that you’d like to be involved with. Picking a grad school has more to do with that than the school’s name.

Also, keep in mind that Universities tend to hire researchers who are also educators. Being a TA is often a condition of grad school funding.

The government also hires quite a few scientists to monitor this and that. And there are non-profits with a science bent. I don’t think those jobs pay particularly well and I’m pretty sure there are a lot of applicants.

Number of openings in the field and salary really depends on where you live - Monster.com might be a good place to start that query. Or you could also look in the professional journals to see who’s hiring what - that’s where Hubby’s been looking. Here in Chicagoland a $50k salary is what they pay Customer Service Workers; a nice house in a good school district is at least $300k. If money is a priority, engineering is the route to go. They always earn far more than biologists. Or architects (different kind of engineering, I know).

I also happen to have an uncle who is a pharmacist and has been one for 25+ years. He has an extremely even temperament and very corny sense of humor. Really nice guy. Personally I’d hate to have his job - way too routine.

3

I recently graduated with a B.S. in Biotechnology, and haven’t found a job yet, so keep that in mind.

I’m not sure how much lab experience you have, but look into internships if you want to be a lab tech. Most of the positions I’ve found seem to be looking for someone with at least two years of experience. It might be too late for you to get that much time, but every little bit will help.

If anyone knows of a place that will take people who only have experience from doing college lab work let me know. [/shameless plea]

4

I thought about engineering to be truthful. This semester I took General Physics, just the Trig based one, and it about killed me. I managed an A, but that was a complete surprise. Two weeks ago, I might have been as surprised to get a B. Some of the concepts were hard to visualize, and two weeks later I had forgotten them or confused them with other laws or formulas. Granted, I have never had a physics course in my life, so maybe that is why it is so hard. I realize with Biology I have to take some more physics courses, but two of them compared to the, what 8, in engineering seems like a small sacrafice.

I personally considered a job in Civil Engineering, seemed like it could be challenging and interesting.

I can’t see going to school for 5+ years only to earn 35k. I would hope to earn as much a year as I get in student loans. Which is why I was aiming for about 50k.

5

I think I might consider something along the lines of Biomedical engineering. I think that field sounds extremely fascinating and it looks to be a growing field too. My biology and chemistry thus far won’t go wasted like they would in other engineering fields. (according to occupational handbook, chemical engineering as a field is not growing)

There is going to be a bit more math, but with biology I have to have Calc II anyhow, so why let Calc II and another physics class or two stop me from considering.

Any Biomedical engineers on board?

6

I was a biology major in college. I wound up being a journalist for several years. Journalism doesn’t care about degrees; if you can write, you’re in.

7

For both you and your prospective employer, experience trumps education. Well, up to a point, anyway. Internships, work-study experience and real “face-time” are of paramount importance. We have hired PhDs who couldn’t pour piss out of a boot if you wrote the instructions on the heel. Also, getting your feet on the ground in the early stages of your education will serve to tell you whether this is something you really want to do, and might very well expose you to something you never considered before.

As part of a college work-study program, I got to work in an analytical laboratory where I saw my first mass spectrometer. It was love at first sight. 20 years later, I’m still doing it, and still loving it.

Also, most scientific disciplines have their own trade organs. For instance, he American Chemical Society publishes “Chemical and Engineering News,” which regularly publishes articles on salary surveys, new hiring trends, etc… I’m sure there are equivalent publications for the other fields. You might look to them for some ideas.

8

I don’t have any answers to your questions, but I’d just like to say that you are showing a rare maturity by actually asking them.

9

If you want to be hired as a lab tech, you’ll want more experience than the other people your future employer will be talking to. See if you can get a job in a microbiology/ bio lab at your community college, washing glassware and making media and stuff like that. Then when you get to a four-year college, you’ll be able to apply for other lab jobs with that on your resume, and go from there.

I work as a microbiologist in a state health lab… I recommend microbiology or med tech as a major to people who like science but aren’t sure what kind of job they want. It’s one of the few fields where, if you have the experience and the maturity needed, you never have to be unemployed. People are always going to get sick and need their illnesses diagnosed, and public health labs and biotech companies seem like they’re always hiring these days with all these bioterrorism scares you hear about (someone’s gotta analyze all those powder-filled envelopes). Feel free to talk to me if you have any questions about the field.

10

I have a Ph.D in biology. But I consider myself an ecologist.

I work in a lab that employs a ton of technicians. The average salary is between $20,000 and $25,000. Not minimum wage, but not luxurious either. Turn-over in my lab (we do a lot of field work and it’s not easy) is pretty high, so I’d say that these kinds of jobs are numerous. Government hires a lot lab techs, as do hospitals and pharmeceutical companies. I’m sure the latter pays much better than an academic lab, like where I work.

With certification, you can become a teacher. But you probably knew that.
Consulting firms will hire college graduates, though they’re hiring more and more Master’s level folks lately. If you’re environmental/ecologically inclined, you can become an interpreter for museums and parks.

It depends. Off the top of my head I’d say chemistry would be the best one, but many jobs like to have people with great communication skills. For a lab tech kind of job, I’d say a chemistry minor would be best. But if you decided to go on to graduate school (in an area where chemistry isn’t really that valuable), writing might be the best.

If you’re just thinking about jobs, I would not get too specialized. If you have a choice between getting a degree in biochemistry and one in pharmacological chemistry (don’t know if something like that exists…I’m just using it as an example), I would choose the former. If you have a choice of getting a degree in botany and one in forestry, get one in botany. Even if your classes are exactly the same, you don’t want to needlessly pigeonhold yourself. Especially if you plan on teaching.

But much more important is what you learn, not what degree program you’ve come out of. People aren’t really going to care that you got a degree in some overly specialized field if you are well-rounded enough in your knowledge and skills.

No. I have a Ph.D and I make well than less than that. Post-docs generally make between $30,000 and $45,000. A Masters graduate can eventually make that much, but not starting off. Not in research.

If you want to make money, research isn’t really the way to do it.

The level of difficulty is much greater, and no–a lot of times a Masters student is not cut out for a PhD program. First of all, even though Masters and PhD students generally take the same number of classes (at least they did where I went to school), the level of research expected out of PhD students is much higher than that for Masters students, who’s projects may not take longer than a year to complete. Also, even though comprehensive exams may be required out of both Masters and PhD students, the exam for the latter is much more difficult. Masters programs aren’t usually as selective as PhD programs. But if you make it through a Masters program, I don’t see you having too much trouble getting into a PhD program. Especially if you do both at the same school (you won’t have to worry about taking classes over again).

“Better” is completely subjective and hinges on what you want to do. If you want to make money without too much stress, go for a Masters. If you have a compelling desire to delve further into your field and you feel like you can make a positive, scholarly contribution to it, go for a PhD. If you aren’t sure what you want to do with your life, go for a Masters. At least you will have an advanced degree while avoiding the risk of being over-qualified for many jobs. If you want to do research, get a PhD.

11

I have a BA in Biology, and a BS in Medical Technology. I have 7 years’ experience in clinical (i.e. hospital) labs, plus nearly four in a research lab. You might look into becoming an MLT, as clinical lab jobs are in demand. If you want to know more, e-mail me.

Vlad/Igor, MT(ASCP)

12

Thanks for the valuable information everybody! It has really helped quite a bit. I realize now that perhaps a biology degree isn’t the best way for me to go. I don’t think I am cut out for teaching, which limits my potenial, as for getting a PhD, I am not sure I want to delve myself into that sort of level of any field. Or perhaps my preconceptions of what a PhD is has skewed my desire. Anyhow, I don’t think that is the route for me, and I doubt I would be PhD material to begin with. The PharmD program seemed daunting enough.

I might look into Medical technologists. I see according to the occupational handbook and salary.com, that median salary is about 40k. The growth potential on salary.com seems pretty low, but I don’t know how much room for advancement salary-wise it is. I approximate it will cost me about a total of 40k to finish school, which is fine if I make 40k. :smiley:

I am also looking into the Biomedical engineer. I am not sure I would be cut out to gradate that program, but it is only 2 more years of school than a MT. Occupational handbook says that the median salary of a BME is 60k, and seems to be quite a bit of growth potential salary-wise according to salary.com. School will be vastly more expensive, since there are no BME programs in Missouri or Kansas. Looking at a random school (Texas A&M), the first year as a non-resident will cost me ~24k, and about 16k (including living expenses on both), a year after that. That comes to about 87k in loans, and another 17k on top of that when you add in my current loans. (4 years undergraduate, 1 year graduate) So I will be spending over double in student loans to make 20k more a year. The plus side is that I get to move out of Missouri and if I graduate the job seems very cool and extremely fascinating. The downside is that I might not cut it- lots of math, lots of physics, tough competition, etc. Oh, and the high student loans.

I think I might give it some thought, but my decision right now is leaning towards the MT. I know risk is necessary and all, but I still need to weigh my choices and see if spending 100k in loans is worth making 60k. And Biomedical Engineering just sounds like something I would enjoy imensely.

13

Speaking as a Medical Technolgist for the past fourteen years I have to add one caveat-there’s practically no room for advancement in this field. I’m doing the same benchwork now that I was doing when I started. Of course, I’m a federal employee as well so things might be a little different in the private sector.

14

When I was an underclassman in a State University, I was more or less in your shoes. I was considering transferring to a private college to become a pharmacist. I worked as a tech in a retail pharmacy and also briefly in hospital pharmacy, eventually learning the job was not for me. I wound up staying at the state school, finishing my B.S in biology and getting certified to teach. While I love teaching, I decided teaching high school was not the gig for me right out of college, either. I bounced around working for the government in a couple of research and agriculture positions, then went back to grad school for my M.S. I now work for the government in a nice research position. The salary is not as good as that of an engineer, but I like what I do.

I have a couple observations/pointers that have not been otherwise mentioned in the excellent posts above:

1.) Generally, you don’t have to pay for grad school in biology. If you are good enough to get in, you can usually get an assistantship that covers tuition and a (very meager) stipend. If you are worried about your school loans, they will likely be deferred as long as you are a full time student, and you may be able to deduct the interest on your federal taxes once you begin repaying them.

2.) Some large schools tend to track full-time incoming grad students into PhD programs but will confer M.S. to professionals, teachers who need to re-certify, and also to grad students that are struggling. So some might interpret a M.S. in biology from a prestigious school as sort of a booby prize for a would-be academian, but a nice achievement for a teacher or working professional.

3.) Unless you want to publish in a field and/or become a full professor, I would recommend you avoid the PhD track.

4.) I have many friends who work in the Biotech/pharmaceuticals industry; IMHO it’s a good track if salary and job availability are your top priorities, and you’re the type of person who is not passionate about research, working at home, working long hours, etc.

5.) Paradoxically, IMHO, if you work for big Biopharma and you’re the type of person who is passionate about research, works at home, and devotes long hours, you’re just as likely to get overpromoted and bogged down with so much paperwork and so many adminstrative tasks that you become removed from the actual research.

6.) The biopharma work environment can run the gamut from super relaxed (typically only startups) to something reminiscent of the film Office Space

7.) Everyone needs to find their niche to be truly happy in their job and in life in general. You won’t get there by agonizing over statistics about salary and job growth. Take the time to try things and then decide what is right for you. Twenty years from now, the starting salary you earned out of college is not going to mean much to you.

15

I can’t answer any of your questions, but I can say I wish I had asked them a few years back. I’m in the same boat as Snooooopy. I’m about six classes away from my B Sc in General Biology. I’ve done six years of school, and I finally came to the conclusion that there are very few jobs out there (although I have heard the technician fields , especially medical, are in need of bodies, especially in Canada).

Hopefully, this fall I will be starting my apprenticeship as a plumber. I don’t know if I will finish my degree or not, but I’ve elected to go into a field where there will be a huge demand for in the next ten or twenty years. I figure I can put in ten years and make some good money, get settled in a bit and then go back and finish if I want, or I can keep on with where ever I’m at., or even try something new.

Now I just have to figure out how to tell my parents…

16

I thought I’d “Me Too!”.

I was a biology major in college. Biochem and MolBio. At about year three I began having difficulty justifying paying that much in tuition for what I was getting. So, I’m a college drop-out.

And then I joined the Navy, they taught me a bunch of stuff about nuclear power (and paid ME, rather than the other way around), and now I’m a lab tech… which is pretty much where I figured I’d end up if I had a BCMBio BS.

Stay in college. I’d personally go with the Chem minor, but I think the writing would help the most.