Birthright (a hijack averted)

[beagledave]

*Originally posted by Zhen’ka *
**Thanks for your response.
Yes, it is (IMO) misleading.
I think that if you had a problem with your knee that would flare up in 9 months and would affect you for the rest of your life, then you’d want your medical provider to give you as much information as possible to address the problem. You would want to know the “many options” available to you, though some may be unpleasant and could possibly haunt you. You would want to make a discision in the best interest of your health (mental and physical), your potential (for a career, family, friends, etc.) and your life (how could I ever give up my Utlimate Frisbee career? (insert tired, but triumphant, smiley here). You would want your medical provider to give you information that would help you.

Well my knee IS that bad. I’ve had my right knee scoped several times…my right knee is SO bad in fact, that if I were older I would have had an artificial knee replacement. Instead i had a high tibial osteotamy, a very painful procedure that took many many months to recover from.
At some point down the road I will need to get the knee replaced. It affects every aspect of my active life…including what sports i can participate in. And again…the ortho did not discuss holistic healing or chiropractic care. That is also a pretty standard approach in the profession…I doubt that ANY ortho surgeon would discuss it.

So I think the comparison IS valid.

If one of the options available to you could not be provided by the orthopedic surgeon, wouldn’t you be bothered that he/she didn’t give you a referral to the chiropractor or information regarding holistic healing if it meant that another, perfectly valid procedure was available?

No. Apparently you’re ready to consider pretty much all “traditional” medicine to be misleading then…most traditional docs do NOT give referrals to chiros or holistic healers for serious conditions

… using your straw man?

Ah thanks…but my point is NOT a straw man. I’ve outlined above the rationale behind my point.

YOUR claim is that the phrase “many options” must mean ALL options…otherwise it is “misleading”. I pointed out an instance (and there certainly are many many more…this is just one I have personal experience with…where someone will discuss “many options” that don’t include “ALL” options.

If you think that any time that occurs…it is “misleading”, than you are at least being consistent. Of course, you would have a bigger problem than pregnancy counselors…since that (“many options”…but not ALL options) is pretty standard fare in many instances.

Then we can discuss the weather in Iowa. Is Davenport close to Grundy Center? I miss it there. (Please don’t misunderstand my intent here, I am interested about things in Iowa and am pleased to see that you live there.)

Davenport is right on the Mississippi River across from Illinois…we’re part of the “misleadingly” name Quad Cities.

Or, we could discuss whether Birthright (using your example above) should even be considered a medical provider or a counseling service (they, IMO, portray themselves to be these things).

based on their list of services
http://www.birthright.org/htmpages/services.htm

I would consider them a “support” agency

In all honesty, I don’t know what they are. Are they a medical provider (pregnancy tests, pre-natal information),

According to the link above…they provide those services

a counseling service (referrals to legal and social service agencies–and I’d be interested, just as catsix was, in seeing what type of referrals they provide) or a charity (free clothing)?

Again yes to those questions according to their website. So I guess it’s up to you to provide a name

Since they claim to offer “many options,” including medical services, do you think that they have an obligation (moral, political, social, religious) to state their position on abortion?

I’m not sure I would call providing a pregnancy test (like an EPT) a “medical service” FWIW…, but anyway I think it’s pretty clear what services they provide…and so where they’re coming from in regards to crisis pregnancy.

I mean…has anybody happened to, you know, take a look at their name?

Birthright?

[beagledave]

Apologies all around for my coding ineptness…I’m still giddy from the Packers winning.

[doreen]

First of all, I am pro-choice.

originally posted by Zhen’ka
If one of the options available to you could not be provided by the orthopedic surgeon, wouldn’t you be bothered that he/she didn’t give you a referral to the chiropractor or information regarding holistic healing if it meant that another, perfectly valid procedure was available?

I certainly wouldn’t expect the orthopedic surgeon to give me referrals to alternative therapies that he or she didn’t believe were valid. Which is really the position Birthright is in.

In all honesty, I don’t know what they are. Are they a medical provider (pregnancy tests, pre-natal information), a counseling service (referrals to legal and social service agencies–and I’d be interested, just as catsix was, in seeing what type of referrals they provide) or a charity (free clothing)? Since they claim to offer “many options,” including medical services, do you think that they have an obligation (moral, political, social, religious) to state their position on abortion?

Based on their website, I’d say they’re primarily a support and referral service. They don’t provide medical care, they don’t provide counseling, they don’t provide legal or financial assistance and they don’t arrange adoptions. They provide referrals. They provide emotional suport .They provide pregnancy testing (which is not really medical care, as pregnancy tests can be purchased in a drug store) and they provide maternity and baby clothes. Also based on their website, I don’t think Birthright International hides their position on abortion at all. Would an organization that believed abortion was a valid choice (or wanted to hide the fact that they don’t) mention that they do not lobby for laws prohibiting abortion, do not picket abortion clinics and do not use scare tactics or pressure? And call themselves Birthright? I mean ,really, the name alone is enough to tell that they will be encouraging birth.

originally posted by kung fu lola
It began with a letter to my local newspaper, The Examiner, in which a young mother detailed the experience I talked about in my OP. She was outraged and was writing to let everyone know that when she went to Birthright for help with supplies for her new baby, she was told that since she had not come to them during her pregnancy, she was not eligible for their help.

While that would certainly be enough to cause me to direct any donations to an agency that also helped new mothers, Birthright exists to help “those distressed by an unplanned pregnancy”. I wouldn’t expect them to help a woman whose pregnancy is already over anymore than I would expect an organization that existed to provide baby supplies to new mothers to provide emotional support , referrals and maternity clothes to pregnant women The letter writer simply didn’t fall into their target population of “pregnant women” at the time she asked for help. To be outraged at that is like being outraged that the battered women’s shelter doesn’t provide services to homeless women.

[beagledave]

*Originally posted by doreen *
** The letter writer simply didn’t fall into their target population of “pregnant women” at the time she asked for help. To be outraged at that is like being outraged that the battered women’s shelter doesn’t provide services to homeless women. **

Damn. You know I have no idea why I didn’t catch onto that notion when I read the OP. I was so focused on the whole “anti abortion counselling” business in the OP that I skipped over the (what you point out) obvious criteria for Birthright. They are a crisis pregnancy center. They’re set up (and staffed) to support pregnant women.

Since they rely (according to their website) entirely on donations and volunteers…I’m guessing that they may be stretched tight when it comes to supplying goods and services. I can easily see them saying…in a sense…“we’re here to support women in crisis pregnancies…we’re not a general WIC program (Women and Infant Children program in the states) to support all new mothers”

In other words, it’s not that the woman didn’t attend some counselling…it’s that she didn’t contact them (apparently) until after she was pregnant. IOW…even if the woman was a strong pro life advocate…the fact that she didn’t contact them until she delivered was the criteria.

One can agree or disagree with this criteria for services, but it doesn’t really have anything to do with the abortion issue.

I have no idea why doreen caught this and I didn’t. I’ll give myself a smack now. :smack: