You raise an interesting question. How can anyone prove that they are the person represented by their birth certificate. I could write to Harrisburg any time and ask for a copy of my birth certificate and, the last time I did it, a check for $6 and get it practically by return mail. I think RFK’s assassin did something like that to get to Canada.
Yep, and herein lies the means for the Deep State to screw with Trump’s plans. He sets the tone, “No passports/SS card/whatever” for people who can’t prove their parent’s citizenship status.
Well, if people have to prove this, then we need to have some standards of what constitutes that proof. Who sets those standards? No way is Trump going to do the actual work of setting useful standards, that’s the kind of actual work he’s always avoided.
So, I can see it going one of two malicious compliance ways: Set the standard so high, virtually no one can meet it. They basically stop issuing passports entirely. Oh, you have a passport, which you think should be enough proof? Sorry, it doesn’t meet the modern standards, you suspected illegal immigrant scum.
Or, set the standard so low that almost anyone can meet it. Sure, Mr. Trump, we’re doing the job you asked us to do! We’ve applied rigorous standards, and denied almost one passport this year!
Exactly. My “proof” was essentially an affirmation that I, a person of the right name and age, am the one documented by the birth certificate. For Canada, I needed a chain of documents back to a parent’s birth certificate, but that was also ultimately by affirmation, really. And unlike today’s kids, I didn’t get an SSN until I started working as an almost-teen.
There is the power of the Trumpist state to screw with the system in another way: set the standard of proof so high that no one can meet it, but make exceptions on a case-by-case basis. Then the burden is on the protected class to show evidence of discrimination that Trump-friendly courts will accept.
Worst case scenario, not likely scenario, though.
The orange knucklehead often says that no other country in the world grant citizenship by birth location. But it’s nearly universal in the Americas, a couple nations in Africa, plus Pakistan. It’s guaranteed under the 14th Amendment and reaffirmed in United States v Wong Kim Ark (1898). But given how this corrupt Supreme Court cares not a whit about precedent, who knows what they would do.
Maybe I’m overthinking this. My mother was born in Italy. She came to the US as a minor in 1931 and was automatically a US citizen because her father, who’d moved to the US years earlier, was a naturalized citizen. However, as far as I can tell, no paperwork was issued for these children. I guess I’d just point to the citizenship law of that time? I don’t have her father’s naturalization records.
My birth certificate just says my mom was born in Italy. My father was born in the US of American parents, but even that’s complicated.
This has led me to wonder: under Trump’s rule, what would be the status of someone who was born in the US of a US citizen and someone who was not a US citizen? Suppose a woman came to the US illegally and conceived and bore a child out of wedlock whose biological father is a US citizen. That child would still have birthright citizenship, right?
Everyone knows that illegality is found on the X chromosome, so you’d inherit it from your illegal mother.
Unless it’s your father who is illegal, then it’s on the Y chromosome. That’s just basic biology!
How onerous it is isn’t the issue. If you are born in the U.S. you are a U.S. citizen. Full stop. It doesn’t matter what the status of your parents is.
That’s not going to true in about two months. And current citizens who that applied to will have their citizenship revoked. There will be no “grandfathering”.
Any citizen with a Hispanic last name better get as much proof as possible lined up now, including proof of parent’s citizenship.
What would be the status of someone who is the child of a US citizen mother, whose father was not a citizen and whose residency was uncertain? And what if the parents were married for a short time as a marriage of convenience, obviously meant to fraudulently confer citizenship on the child? And what if the child was named Obama?
Deport him to Hawaii! Erase his presidency and all references of it!
Oh, please!
For as much as I can’t stand trump and his idiot notions, what’s worse is all the people who think that he is going to wave his magic wand and say “poof, you are no longer a citizen.”
Note carefully that he didn’t say, “You’re no longer a citizen.” He said he will instruct the state department to no longer issue you a passport and SSA to no longer issue you an SSN. Can he do that? Probably not but he can try and then let the courts sort it out. And ignore their decision if he doesn’t like it.
Kaos N Suze
He doesn’t have to do that- he can strip you of your citizenship just by thinking about it.
Theoretically it can be argued that as Ark’s parents were in the county legally so they were subject to the jurisdiction thereof unlike an illegal immigrant who would be deported to his own country. It is a stretch and although a few have commentated on it, I don’t think anyone believes that is a valid argument (maybe sovereign citizens?) but we have seen this Court fold, spindle and mutilate the law to get the ends they want.
That’s getting close to your assumption in that other thread. “Let’s assume he has Thanos’ glove …”
Every country in Europe manages it (Ireland was the last to remove birthright citizenship in 2005). But those that had it ended it on a given date - it certainly wasn’t retrospective - and that means kids can use their parents’ birth certificates as proof of citizenship if the parents were born before the cut off date. (My parents had to supply proof of their own citizenship on my sisters’ passport applications; I was born just before birthright citizenship ended so only needed the birth certificate.) Legal resident parents presumably have associated paperwork, but may not have kept it if there was no reason to at the time?
Gaetz is pretty good evidence that the entire GOP Congress won’t roll over for Trump just because the God-Emperor demands it. But there are others like Nehls who seem all to eager to kneel before Trump.
I’ve been pondering how this would apply to people who are now citizens by birthright. Take Trump, for example. IIRC, his grandfather was an immigrant, so his father would not have been a citizen. If that becomes true, Donald John Trump is not a citizen, nor a president. Presto, Trump bites his own ass.
They are already talking about stripping people of citizenship on a large scale, and aren’t even in office yet.