Bishop John Shelby Spong: heretic or visionary?

GOM is right in the sense that there is still much about the universe we don’t understand yet, and the beginning of the universe, in particular has still not been explained definitively. I have to confess that I don’t really understand the physics of Big Bang theory. I’ve read Hawking’s Brief History of time at least four times and (to steal a line from elucidator) I think I now have a firm grasp of the table of contents. I understand that Hawking has somewhat modified BB so that it no longer requires an infinite singularity, but I don’t really have the knowledge to analyze, or even comprehend his reasoning. Regardless of that, though, the fact that we don’t know for sure how the universe began does not mean that we can’t figure out how old it is, or see that it is expanding, or see that there is a uniformity of cosmic radiation. BB takes this data and fashions a scenario which would and incorporate and explain everything that is already observable. The thing is, though, if we acquire more data, or if we find a better theory, we will discard BB. Science follows the data, not blind allegiance to doctrine.

The fallacy for Biblical literalists is their assumption that attacking or punching holes in a particular scientific theory is ipso facto evidence for their own beliefs. Disproving evolution, if that could be done, still does not prove that Genesis is correct. As a matter of fact, the literal truth of Genesis has already been definitively falsified in so many of its details that it simply not rational to cling to it as science. That doesn’t mean it can’t be read for its allegorical truth. Science does not attack the primal message of Genesis (God created the universe. God created man. At first, man lived in harmony with God and the universe, but that harmony has been disrupted. man must find his way back to that harmony. Man must find his way back to God).

It’s the moral of the story that matters, not the literal truth of it. Jesus taught in parables. It would be silly to get into an argument about whether there really was a “Good Samaritan,” because that would be utterly missing the point, even if there was a Good Samaritan.

I think that Spong is saying we need to look for the pure messages of the Bible instead of getting hung up on it’s literal historicity.

emarkp: I get where your coming from, and I think Hawkings revamp of everything in the universe is pretty sound. I don’t think BB will be discarded, personally, as it still holds a certain amount of scientific weight(Mass?) at least with Hawking, who I am willing to defer to in such matters to a certain degree. I’ll agree that GOM’s viewpoint is correct to a degree. I don’t think a creator theory would ever hold a degree of falsifyability, but we can determine to an extent what the nature of God would have to be, if He were to exist, and that alone can answer a great many questions.
Diogenes: I thin Spong and I are on the same page to a large extent, but I believe he may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater on some issues. I disagree that the advances in science reduce the bible to a philosophy book, akin to the Tao Te Ching, but rather focus us on issues that may need to be relooked at. For example, I don’t think that Hawking has tossed out BB in his theories, but may have amended it to match more closely with observations and quantum mechanics. The bible must also change, and be modified to match what we now know. What we ‘know’ of course, is highly limited. I think in many ways, the Bible was really the first Grand Ultimate Theory, having presented a beginning, middle, and end to the universe, and attempted to explain many of the goings on in between. Now that our view is broadened, I think that we can broaden with it.

BTW, how does it feel to be on one of the three threads remaining not dealing with Iraq or Bush? Not having an opinion on the Elizabeth Smart case, or the athletic endeavors of African Americans, I may step out of GD until things cool off. I’m going to check out the Pizza Parlor for awhile. Cheers!

You forgot the idiotic moral conundrum genre. :wink: