A very clear presentation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Great Debates
1

I know this has been posted many times by several different posters, but I feel like it bears repeating. I am fully aware that certain posters here are 100% satisfied with their religious/nonreligious state, however, there may be some here are searching for a Truth they haven’t been able to find. This is for those who are unsatisfied with any emptiness they may feel.

I know in my heart of hearts that I’m God’s child. I know He has a definite purpose for my life. And above all, I have full assurance of my future in eternity. No greater peace can be experienced by a human than when he knows his Creator loves Him. I have that assurance. I’d like for everyone else to have it too. This is how you can become a child of the Lord.

First, You must accept the fact that you are a sinner. None of us are perfect. We all make mistakes and not one of us deserves eternal life. (See Romans 3:23 and Romans 3:10.)

Second, Your sin has consequences, or a price to be paid. Sin in the eyes of God is a debt that must be paid. This price, if we choose to pay the debt we owe, is an eternity in Hell.

Third, You must realize that Jesus Christ, God’s Perfect Son, has already paid our sin debt.

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. Romans 5:6

…that he (Christ) by the grace of God should taste death for every man. Hebrews 2:9b.

Our sin was placed on Jesus when He died on Calvary. He shed His perfect blood and rose from the dead 3 days later. This sacrifice was the greatest gift that man could ever receive. A sinless Man paid the sin debt that me and you owed so we don’t have to!

Fourth, You must accept by faith Jesus Christ as your Personal Savior.

Ninety times in the Gospel of John the Bible says, “Believe.”

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

In this passage, Christ divides the entire planet between those who believe on Christ for salvation and those who believe not. Those who believe inherit Heaven freely, while those who reject Him damn themselves to Hell.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24.

To belive on Christ means to place your soul in His hands for the salvation from your sins. If you truly want to belive on Him, call upon His name. Ask Him to save you from your sins and tell Him you trust in Him to take you to Heaven. He will!

If you are searching for meaning, for purpose, and for a faith that’s real, this is it. I know sometimes witnessing is viewed as annoying, but I just feel that time is short. The signs of the times are happening around us. Earthquakes are happening more frequently than I have ever noticed and wars and rumors of wars (as predictced in the Gospels) are happening everyday. Christ’s return is very close. But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by. Then he said unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kindgom against kingdom: And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. Luke 21:9-11

I’m not going to try to debate the truths of the Bible with anyone here. I can’t. Most of you are probably smarter than me, wittier than me, and better at debating than I am. But I would hope that if you thought you had the key to happiness you would be kind enough to share it with me. I would also hope that if you knew I would suffer in Hell you would be kind enough to warn me. This is why I’m writing this, for you. You may be smarter than I am, but if you deliberately send yourself to Hell you’re not as smart as you think. Please, Friend, give your hear to Jesus before it’s too late. This may be the last chance you have.

May the Holy Spirit draw you.

2

I reject all of the writings of Saul of Tarsus as heretical babble.

3

What? It’s the End Times again?

I’ve got one question for you, Friend of God, and any other Doomsayers on this board: When you grow old, and your church starts teaching your grandchldren that they are the chosen ones that are living in the End Times, are you going to tell them that you misinterpreted the same scripture they believe in and that you were wrong, as was your father, and his father, and his father?

Or are you going to lie to them and yourself by saying nothing about mistake you made about your beliefs?

4

But, remember. You must be born of Spirit in order to be saved, and you must keep Jesus’s commandments in order to have that Spirit. (John 14)

5

Here we go again.

Christians can’t even agree on what the basics are, can they?

6

Altho I would hardly go so far as Fear- Paul is not Jesus. The teachings of Paul are in many cases directly against the teachings of Jesus. The writings of Paul are NOT the Gospel- the Gospel is the Word of Jesus.

The Gospel of Jesus is easier: “Love one another” “Do unto others” “Be tolerant”. And- “I am the new Covenant- I have died for your sins so that all you truly need to do is accept me & my infinite forgiveness”.

True- none are perfect- but that does not make us all sinners. The price for your sins can be paid by repentance & good works- altho accepting JC is easier. The Jews still have their original Covenant with G-d, and if they follow their Covenant G-d will follow his half also.

Brother Jenkinsfan- I applaud your faith & patience, but there are different paths to JC’s infinite mercy. ALL are forgiven, no matter what the path.

7

Hmm…
Actually, I have the key to your happiness:

First, One must accept the fact that one is a human being capable of error and ignorance. None of us are perfect but it is through self-awareness that we begin to understand/ have compassion for our faults and the faults of others. Not one of us deserves eternal life for our faults…nothing anyone could ever possibly do or say could merit such a punishment!

Second, One’s lack of self-awareness has consequences, which form learning experiences – it’s called taking responsibility for your actions. Attempting to palm your sins off through any means other than self-responsibility would be an offense to any reasonable God.

Third, One must realize that the same understanding, passion, justice and truth that were evident in the lives of sages of the past, are present in one’s own nature. Following will distract one from becoming that nature.

Fourth, One must accept responsibility for saving oneself from one’s own self-ignorance…both within and without. To rely on another’s vision in the dark is to forever be led.

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died in order to bring about the revolution which would unseat the Roman occupation which was so distateful to him through his own martyrdom.

…that he (Christ) by the grace of God should taste death to inspire every man to follow him in his cause of overthrowing the Romans. Unfortunately Saul/Paul had another idea, converting the revolutionary sentiments of Jesus to the placating sentiments and tawdry mandates about Christian etiquette.

8

Here we go again.

Another hijack into a One True Scotsman debate…

Or perhaps, given the subject matter, we should rename it the One True Holy Grail argument.

What do you mean you’ve “already got one?” :smiley:

Um… I don’t remember that last part being in there anywhere. Could you refresh my memory?

I can’t imagine why Emperor Constantine was so keen on putting Paul’s letters in the canon. :slight_smile: (well, ok, I made that up… but it might not be too far from wrong).

9

I am quite familiar with the way jenkinsfan views the scripture. According to his views, the likes of Ghandi are hell-bound. As are Catholics. As are Mormons. As are Jews, the chosen people of God.

Well, I refuse to believe any of that noise. I’d rather go to Hell than be in heaven with that small of a group.

As for you, jenkinsfan, where the fuck were you when people were having intelligent discussions about the Bible in this forum for the past month or so, huh? Why weren’t you asking questions? Why didn’t you pipe up? All you can do is repeat a little line over and over again, which makes you and your kind as intelligent and discerning as a parrot.

And I don’t listen to parrots. They say things without knowing what those words really mean, just mimicking what someone else said around it. They don’t have the ability to think about what they say, or question it. They just repeat it, over and over.

Well, here’s where I do a little proselytizing:

Unitarian Universalist Association: Affirming the Inherent Worth and Dignity of Every Person

Everyone read this page. Whether you are Wiccan, Pagan, Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, Islamic, or even an agnostic or atheist, this is the best place because it allows you to find God if that’s what you want, or find fellowship if that’s what you want. Nobody is a sinner here, even if we are all less than perfect. And nobody is going to cast anyone into a firey pit for all eternity because they didn’t love Him the right way.

Even Christians are welcome, and some do join.

Just not stupid parrots.

So please everyone, the right path to salvation and happiness is exactly what it should be - for you personally. God wouldn’t have it any other way, and with only my own cursory quest for education into comparative religions, I know more about God than anyone like jenkinsfan or his ilk.

So will you, so become a UU today!

I encourage everyone here in this thread to proselytize the religion of their choice, or encourage others that the lack thereof is the only way.

10

from Satan’s link

Well, if I was going to join a church, this sounds like one that I could come to terms with fairly easily. :slight_smile: (I didn’t see any copyright thingy on the page, so I hope that posting that snippet is allowed.)

I’m Agnostic, as I think I’ve mentioned before, though I do have the occasional bouts with Atheism. It’s not really that I don’t know what I believe, but that the more I read, and the more I learn it seems like the only rational position to take is that if their is a God, He is unknowable to us unless He chooses to reveal Himself. And He hasn’t, at least, not to me.

11

I would chalk this up to selective perception, but for all I know, there may have been more earthquakes than usual lately. Anyone in the know?

Well that was certainly unprecedented until recently.

This says a lot, I think.

JF, I hope you would know by now that drive-by witnessing gains you exactly no respect around here. You are certainly not going to win anyone over by stating your case, acting all arrogant and holier-than-thou, and then refusing to back up your points. The reason I have the respect that I do for FriendOfGod is that he at least stays in and makes an earnest attempt at a debate, even though that attempt might be maddening to the rest of us. Also, the idea that we should listen to what you have to say even though you don’t care what we have to say certainly doesn’t demonstrate a lot of respect or Christian love for the community on your part.

Witnessing is confined to Great Debates for a reason.

Dr. J

PS: If you haven’t already, I would recommend checking out the other threads (A Movie That Might Change Your Life, Christians–The Persecuted Majority). I, for one, would be interested in your thoughts.

12

jenkinsfan, I just had to come and check out your thread. As predictable as my response will be to everyone on this board, I just have to say you could not have said what you said any better. In my opinion, the fact that you are being so harshly attacked for your gently spoken words simply indicate that you are being effective. Remember, there are many people who read threads that never respond, and one of those people might be the person God had you post this thread for. It will be worth reading all the venom aimed your way if God can use this thread in someone’s life. Blessings brother :).

13

Maybe I’m misreading jenkinsfan’s presentation of the Gospel, and the more conservative Gospel intrepration in genernal, but it seems like God is a cruel dictator. “Submit or burn in Hell.” is the cry of a creation of infinitile minds not the cry of a truly divine being.

In short the God of fundementalism Christian is an asshole.

Said God doesn’t deserve worship. Said God should abdicate to someone who can do the job. His failure to do so is selfish and bad for everyone.

I’m not meaning to attack jenkinsfan or FoG or anyone like them, just the piece of shit God that they believe in. Oh yes its horribely immature to be angry at this God. Though any dictator deserves this anger. Casting people into a burning lake for eternity for making the world a better place are the actions of a dictator with lots of power.

And to call this God any sort of parent is insulting to all parents. I don’t remember my parents threatening me with punishment when I refused to say I loved them and begged for their forgiveness because I violated the rules. They let me make mistakes, learn from them, gave me love and forgiveness. God seems to be of the mind that you should give in based on poor logic and fear of hell.

I tend to prefer less assanine deities. Converting to those hardline Christianities is a spiritual and intellectual step backwords.

If there is a God that deserves worship He will not demand it or threaten you to get it. If there is a God that truly wants personal relationships with His creations He will do as much work to establish them as His creations will.

Hopefully any real God out there will enter into someone’s life, and keep them from sliding into the moral pit that is salvation by divine dick sucking (I think exclusive salvation is its more common name).

Here ends my venom.

14

newbie warning
Perhaps this ought to go in a new thread, but I’d like to ask this question to all those listening.

Can anybody give me a verse from the bible that says if you do not believe in Christ, you will go to Hell?

I’m a Christian myself, and I haven’t yet been able to find one.

Notably, I’m not talking stuff like John 3:16, which speaks in the positive: “whoever believes . . . shall not perish,” rather than the negative: “whoever does not believe . . . shall perish,” or even the verse provided by JF earlier, which in the NIV says that those who “reject the son will not see life.” I am hesitant to believe that active rejection and not accepting are the same thing. Most of the verses I would generally cite are “if,” rather than “if and only if.”

Anybody out there got anything for me?

/newbie alert

15

In other words:

Jenkinsfan is just plain right. You might be smarter than him, you might be able to provide massive evidence that he is wrong, but the fact remains that he is just plain right. Oh, and if you don’t believe in him, despite his utter lack of a coherent argument or even a coherent position to argue- all them smarts won’t do you much good in Hell, Mr. Smartypants!

What colossal arrogance!

Why should I listen to you, jenkinsfan? If you will not do me the courtesy of listening to me, then what possible right do you have to ask that I do for you that which you will never do for me?

(P.S. In case you didn’t notice, folks, jenkinsfan has served us up some fundie porn. See the “Movie That Might Change Your Life” thread.)

-Ben

16

Once again, FoG shows himself to be the master of fundie etiquette. The fact that the meaning of the words is so arrogant is irrelevant- to a fundie, all that matters is how the words are spoken.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I have to ask:

Jenkinsfan, since you’re here to tell us what it takes to be a Christian, could you clear something up for me? If someone claimed to be a prophet of God, and delivered false prophecies, would you consider them to be a true Christian? Also, would you consider their prophecies to come from Satan? Would you consider the prophet to be sent by Satan?

-Ben

17

Go down about 2 verses.

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Of course you have to believe that being condemned means “going to hell”.

18

Ha! I am winning the “conversion cup” 1-0!

:smiley:

19

John 14
6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.”

20

GOAL! GOAL! GOAL! GOAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLL!!!

:smiley: