1)Everyone is a sinner.
*For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23 *
2)Everyone owes a debt for their sin.
*For the wages of sin is death; Romans 6:23A *
3)Everyone’s sin debt has been paid. …but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23B
4)Everyone can be saved. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9
Acceptance of Jesus Christ as your personal sacrifice and Savior, is all that is necessary for an eternal redemption.
BTW, if you have done this would you please let me know?
How do we know that everyone is a sinner? If Christians can say with certainty that every single human alive has sinned, then doesn’t that sort of suggest that it’s inevitable – that there is no way to go through life WITHOUT sinning – that God built sin right into the system? Why should we feel guilty about doing our best with the cards we’ve been dealt?
See above. Why should we owe a debt for sin we could not avoid. You suggest that everyone is a sinner and then go on to suggest that everyone should feel guilty about that. What if I were to suggest that breathing is a sin and everyone should feel guilty for using air? Why should I owe somebody for doing something that I could not avoid? Why would a good God condemn me to the fiery pits of hell for being who I am (unless I get down on my knees and plead for mercy)?
Not everyone’s, if I understand you correctly. Just those who beat themselves up over sin they couldn’t avoid, bow down, beg for mercy and swear that they believe unquestioningly in a guy who lived 2000 years ago.
See above. Not everyone can be saved. You see… there’s that little requirement about believing in God and Jesus Christ. Am I just supposed to act as though I believe when I don’t? Is faking it good enough? Should I pay a hypnotist to fool me? Everyone tells me that faith comes from the “holy spirit”, but if so, it hasn’t paid me any visits.
So, no… not everyone can be saved according to your rules – only those special enough to be personally touched by the big guy himself.
And unfortunately, I might as easily accept the Purple Unicorn as my personal sacrifice and Savior since I don’t have a fundamental belief in either.
Hm. OK, so my Catholic neighbor is NOT going to hell? Or my Mormon one? I do not have to believe the Bible is the inerrant and absolute Word of God?
Sorry if this sounds flippant, but they’re important questions. If acceptance of Christ is all that’s required for salvation, then I can beleieve other things along with that and still be saved, right? There are the Catholics for you.
If acceptance of Christ is all that’s required for salvation, then what if I beleiev there’s more to Christ than appears in your Bible? There are the Mormons.
And if acceptance of Christ is all that’s required for salvation, then I can discard the Old Testament altogether, and pretty much bag the epistles, too, right? If acceptance of Christ is all that matters, all I need to know can be found in the Gospels. Hey, for that matter, all I need is a distilled and expurgated version of the Gospels. Maybe I could just own a copy of Jesus Christ Superstar?
Again, apologies if I’m coming across as flip or condescending–it is not my intent or desire to do so, merely to understand your theology.
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16
My “debate” wasn’t intended to be a debate. The directory to this link said that I could witness here and I just thought that I’d do it. Hope this helps.
Jenkinsfan was making a statement from within the christian faith. Within that faith, (at least according to the baptist version of it) all his statements are correct and in fact are inarguable. Adam and Eve consumed the fruit of the tree of knowledge, separating themselves from God who sent his son, Jesus, to redeem us from a sin beyond redemption. Only faith in Jesus can save us from eternal damnation, and only faith is neccessary.
Now you may not believe this. I don’t either, as should be obvious from numerous posts I have made. But then the debate is whether christianity is true or not.
BTW, Jenkinsfan, if my summary of your faith is inaccurate in any way, I sincerely apologize, and please correct me. I am mainly making this post to show that not every agnostic is going to jump down your throat just for being a christian.
also andros, I respect that you are asking legitimate questions, but I think you could have asked them in a less contentious manner.
You’re right. I made the mistake of posting in this thread immediately after wading through some of the less savory threads. Thanks for the heads-up and my apologies to all, especially to you, jenkinsfan.
I am truly curious, but I understand completely if you choose not to answer.
No, your summary isn’t incorrect at all. You probably could’ve started this thread just as good as I did–if not better. Thank you for respecting my faith. BTW, <asking out 'uv pure curiosity> what possessed( :D) an agnostic to read the Gospel?
Sir, you never have to apologize for asking me a question about my faith. That’s the reason I decided to come to these boards. Christians are commanded by the Lord to share their faith with those who want to hear about it. No offense taken.
As for your questions about Catholics and Mormons…Well, they aren’t mentioned in the Bible, but neither are Baptists, agnostics, or Methodists. So, I conclude that all members of all religions are included in the “whosoever” in John 3:16. BTW, owning a copy of Jesus Christ Superstar isn’t accepting Him or none of the Disciples would’ve been saved. It’s a matter of the heart.
“…and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Romans 10:9
A) I was not intending to jump down anyone’s throat. Jenkinsfan posted these verses in Great Debates and I do not believe they should fall off the end of the topic list without comment. I would hope that challenging doctrine is not automatically equated with personal attack.
B) I understand that those verses are consistent within the Christian faith (I was raised Catholic). What I don’t understand is how they are at all compelling to a non-Christian. In other words, why are they so often used in “witnessing”?
C) So, yes… I am debating both witnessing tactics and the believability of the Christian faith itself.
D) I would imagine that a very large percentage of declared agnostics and atheists have read the Christian Bible. Most of us have spent quite a bit of time exploring different religions and arriving at our own beliefs (or lack thereof).
JENKINS: I am such a doubting Christian that one could call me an agnostic w/o raising any hackles,AND I consider myself a fair Biblical scholar. See my posts in “Did Jesus have long hair” and 10 Commandments.
Regarding that 2nd issue, as that thread has died (but I’d be happy to see it come back, hint, hint), why do you think the religous right is so excited about the 10 C,(I assume you know Jesus exempted Christians from the Old Testament Law)?
Sorry, I wasn’t being very explicit. What I meant was, if all I need to do to be saved is to know and accept Christ as my Savior, all I need to know out of the Bible is the stuff about Him, right? Where does the rest of the Bible come in?
He/she’s not here to debate a thing, unlike Daniel, with whom I’ve disagreed very much, and who can actually debate things.
Look, Jenkins, ol’ soul: The title is “Great Debates” and the subtitle includes “witnessing,” but doesn’t that really mean presenting your witness with some proof? Especially when someone asks you about that proof?
You might find this hard to believe, but some, many even, folks here don’t consider your book to be all that important as a source of anything. Some of us believing folks don’t consider it to be inerrant either. So your posting yet another quote from that book in response to a valid question will likely get you this quote from someone else’s book:
&
Now tell me exactly what scientific proof you have that makes your assertions above any more valid than Muhammed’s assertions I’ve just quoted.
