I was always taught (southern baptist) that you had to believe more than just in Jesus. 5 things. 1. son of God 2. virgin birth 3. died on cross 4. rose from dead 5. will come back. I can not remember chapters/versus right now and I no longer actively practice southern baptist. Just what I heard for 21 years.
Everyone? Okay, I’ll admit I haven’t read the bible all the way through <gasp>, and the Everyone is a sinner clause may be clarified later, but does it truly mean everyone? What about an infant who dies? How about a six year old? Ten year old? At what age do I need to accept christ to avoid eternal damnation?
Terrapin: there is “actually” a circle of Hell (one of the nicer one, as if that helps) for unbaptizsed infants. One of the sicker concepts of (some) Christians, and one of the reasons I am such a doubter.
Umm, thanks, Monty, you know I LOVE a good arguement.
But I guess the “debate” here is “does accepting Jesus as your Savior get you into heaven”? or something like that. I can run with that.
meara:
Congratulations.
Of all the heretical, blasphemous statements you could have possibly made, you made the most egregious one in the cosmos.
She’s PINK, Dammit!
On your haunches and beg forgiveness!
Ok, I logged off for a while to eat dinner and now there are too many people asking too many questions for me to answer directly without my arthritis kicking in, so I’m just going to elaborate very broadly.
God loves you. He loves you very much. The purpose of this thread was to let you know that. I know that many of you don’t accept that, but there may be some who might so I feel that I must “witness”.
I apologize if I offended anyone. If you want to believe something else I won’t agree with you (Big Surprise :D) but it’s not my place to judge you. Hope this 'splains things.
ETERNITY: SMOKING OR NON SMOKING?
Itchy the flea-filled beagle hound.
What was the purpose of the OP? Did you think that you were giving us information that we had not heard before? Sorry to disillusion you, but life is not like a Chick Tract, were the evil sinners are converted instantly by the Bible verses spoken by the earnest young preacher.
I’m not trying to put down your efforts, but this is the Great Debates forum. Just typing out your favorite Bible verses and being a happy Christian can be very annoying to those who bother to ask questions. It makes you look like a common politician.
Eagles may soar free and proud, but weasels never get sucked into jet engines.
<jenkinsfan scratches head in confusion> Ok, I’ve been a Christian since I’ve been able to read and I’ve never heard of a circle of Hell and no, I don’t believe that infants go to Hell. BTW, I’ve never met a Christian who believes this either…do you have any Scriptures for this?
ETERNITY: SMOKING OR NON SMOKING?
Itchy the flea-filled beagle hound.
meara,
I didn’t mean to imply that you were jumping down anyone’s throat. That was a general comment not directed to you personally although due to logical clumsieness on my part I understand why you took it that way.
I was merely stating that Jenkinsfan was not really starting a debate since his OP was a statement of faith and thus really beyond rational analysis. To be honest I share many of your views. I don’t see how small children or decent people deserve hell just because they don’t believe in Jesus. This is my biggest problem with Christianity.
Actually I have an ulterior motive. Certain people–we all know who they are–have been behaving like real jerks on the Creationism threads. When they are called on this they claim we are attacking him because of their Christianity. I wanted to show that a Christian will not be attacked solely because of their faith and that some of us unbelievers welcome honest debate and differing opinions. I certainly did not mean to imply that you were not one of those people. Your post was full of good points, well expressed.
Note: the above point does not mean I am being hypocritical in being polite to Jenkinsfan. I will be polite to anyone until they act badly.
I hope this clears things up.
Perked Ears indicate curiosity - Know Your Cat
As I stated earlier, I never meant to offend you. I figured you had heard this before, therefore, I assumed if you didn’t want to hear it again you wouldn’t want to enter a thread about the Gospel. Guess I assume to much. Forgive me for being annoying. (Wow, I’ve apologized for a lot of things in my life but not that one! There really is a first time for everything- :D) BTW, if you don’t like the fact that I’m here blame Satan, the poster not anti-deity. I met him on the LBMB. Oh, and what questions would you like me to answer?
God bless,
jenkinsfan
P.S. I’m glad life’s not a Chick Track too–I like color!
ETERNITY: SMOKING OR NON SMOKING?
Itchy the flea-filled beagle hound.
Brought to us by Satan? Works for me!
You said that knowing Jesus and believing in him would be enough, but how can one know Jesus without studying the Bible? Which means that a certain amount of the Bible must be read and understood. A lot of the religious debates here involve interpretation of the Bible by the different Christian sects. Your opinion?
Eagles may soar free and proud, but weasels never get sucked into jet engines.
[quote]
Originally posted by jenkinsfan:
**
I don’t know about other religions, but Mormons believe that any child who dies under age 8 automatically goes to the celestial heaven. They believe that it’s at around 8 that the child is capable of fully distinguishing between right and wrong.
Here’s the problem i see with the Christian system. Ghandi. Ghandi was one of the most selfless, kindest, least sinning men of all time. He was diplomatic, preached nonviolence and fought for rights for his people against an un-Christian system of discrimination. BUT because he shunned the Christ-as-savior thing, he is doomed to rot in hell. How wrong is that? Why does a murderer who converts on his deathbed get in while Ghandi who lived the most Christian life of anyone i can think of should burn in hell? Explain please jenkinsfan. Ignorance lives.
More for Gore or the son
of a drug lord/none of
the above/f*** it cut the
cord-
Lights out/Guerilla
Radio
Ok, I have several questions. The first is based on my legitimate confusion about the bible. There are so many religions claiming that they have the one “true” understanding of the bible.
If all men sin, then all men are immperfect, right? The bible was written by men who believed they were recording this wishes of God. Is it possible their writings are imperfect? Then a group of men gathered and voted on which writings to include in the bible. Is it possible that their decisions were imperfect? Then the bible was translated by men, is it possible that their translations are imperfect? Today, men read the bible and interpret what it means and how it should apply to our lives, is it possible that their understanding is imperfect?
Bible interpretations have caused me so much confusion. I was raised Mormon and watched as the Baptists took a vote and declared the LDS church as not a true Christian one. Then I have seen other fundamentalists as doing the same to Catholics. It all confuses me because a man can kill another man, go to prison, repent, and be saved, but a Muslim who lives a good life, harms no one, doesn’t accept Christ as Messiah and isn’t saved.
So I, as a homosexual, only have to accept Christ to be saved? Or would I have the added burden of living a celibate life as well?
Jenkins: did you ever read Dantes Inferno? It’s a pretty good representation of the way the Catholic Church believed hell was set up.
And I can’t find the exact quote, but is there not something along the lines of “nobody gets to heaven unless they believe in Jesus”?
Yeah i agree with beakerfx. Come on like i said, Ghandi wont be admitted. But all he people who lived lives of sin will pass the test. How does this work out? BTW in the bible it definitely says homosexualtiy is wrong. Since this is something many people have no choice over, how can this be considered a sin? Its almost like saying “ok blue eyed people, you’re in, but you hazel eyed freaks can burn for eternity…”
More for Gore or the son
of a drug lord/none of
the above/f*** it cut the
cord-
Lights out/Guerilla
Radio
Um jenkinsfan,
If you don’t propose a debate (I have only read about 10 of the replies), then why post this in the GD?
Why not introduce yourself in the MPSIMS…this is an appropriate place to do so, and personally I don’t know why the mods haven’t caught up with this?
Is it because he/she is a religious person?
Heck, for the GD this is boring material < giggle >
Because you are a “fundie” doesn’t mean you are worthy of debate, we have plenty of so-called fundies that frequent the unofficial chat room, that deal quite well with us sinners 
NOW, give us a topic to debate, not you and we will be there right by your side refuting your words or agreeing
That’s why I asked about the possibilty of mistakes in translations and interpretation. Because when I read the account of Sodom, I see the sins of rape, inhospitality, greed, rudeness, etc. To say that the city was destroyed because of homosexuality seems a slanted intepretation. Also, there are other passages in the bible where it’s stated that Sodom was destroyed because of inhospitality. Then there are biblical scholars who look at the original language and state that the bible was referring to temple prostitutes and not homosexuals.
So you have two possible intepretations of the bible and each is the exact opposite of the other. How do I know which is correct. Add to the fact what I know about myself and I’m inclined to believe the scholars’ interpretation, but if the fundamentalists are to be believed it’s like playing spiritual Russian Roulette.
That’s why I lean towards Deism and Buddhism. From what I have seen of those two religions, the main idea is to do no harm, to be kind to others, and to live a life of moderation. Those seem like admiral tenets to live by.
Paul in 1 Corin. reviles & attacks homosexual sex. But then again, he believes ALL sex is wrong, even between man & wife.
However, “Sodomy” is a sin thruout the Bible. There is no Biblical def. of Sodomy I can find, however. It would not be an incorrect interpretation that Sodomy includes homosexual sex.
But, it does not matter, in a way. In the teaching of Jesus all you really have to do is accept Him & all is OK.
I also find it odd, that one could live a life of complete sin & villany, but accept Jesus, and thus ascend. BUT, if you do not believe, to Hell you go, no matter how blameless your life. One of the reasons I do not accept any organized religion.
**
The term “sodomy” was defined by a monk much, much later. He based his definition on the confessions he heard. Sodomy included oral sex, anal sex, making phallic shaped objects for sexual pleasure, women being on top during intercourse, etc. Over time the definition was whittled down to mainly mean anal sex (though oral sex is sometimes included. Depends on who you ask)
Daniel… how blameless is your life? Your saying that even though they live a good life if they dont accept the gift it should be forced upon them.