Bite me, Uncle Sam

The BBQ Pit
1

Last week I get a letter from the Air Force Reserve stating that they are looking for military retirees that have recently left active duty in the last five years or less.

The Air Force Reserve is getting critically short of experienced personnel and has turned to the Retired Reserve to fill the gaps in their manning. I was offered my last active duty rank and reinstatement in the Active Reserve.

I figured, hey, this is a great part-time gig. One weekend a month and two weeks duty in the summer. A weekend duty would get me a little over $400. Not bad for two days work. Plus, I enjoyed my Air Force service and I thought that I could help again. Call it misplaced patriotism. I called a USAFR recruiter and he gave me the whole deal.

After listening to the entire program, the first thing that flashed into my mind was Joseph Heller’s novel Catch-22. Yes, Uncle Sam wanted our experience and training desperately, however, there was a little matter concerning dual compensation under Federal law.

It seems that since I am currently on the Retired Reserve and drawing 50% of my last honorably served active duty pay grade, then I cannot draw both active and retired reserve pay at the same time. This is in accordance with Federal law. Simply, for every day I spend training on Active Reserve, a day of my retired pay is deducted.

To put it bluntly, I told the recruiter that with all due respect to the US government and the US Air Force, an institution that I proudly served for 20 years, they could all go and kiss my proud civilian ass. I offered my service again with the understanding that I might go in harm’s way, one more time.

For this I get told, “Thanks, but we have to fuck with your retired pay just to balance our needle-dick ledger books in accordance with a Federal statute probably written by some fuckmuffin who’s never put on a uniform and served under fire.” Jesus H. Christ In A Freakin’ Wheelbarrow, they need trained and experienced senior NCOs and officers and then they think that they can fuck us over like a basic trainee recruit.

You’d think after 20 years I should’ve detected “Catch-22” somewhere in this bullshit. It’s a shame the federal government does not consider military retired pay untouchable and honorably earned.

Take a long flying fuck at the southbound end of a north moving cow, Uncle Sam. I’ll be out fishing somewhere, leave a message on my answering machine next time the balloon goes up. Until then, eat shit.

                          Respectfully,

                          Bluepony (MSgt, USAF, **RET**)
2

JeeZ!

They really said that?

3

I would just like to point out that southbound means it’s movingsouth, which means that poor north-moving cow has suffered catastophic ass-detachment.

4

Well, sorry to be the party pooper here, but I think the idea of getting retired and active duty pay at the same time for the same job is pretty fuckin ridiculous. If you go back to the Reserves, you wouldn’t be a retired military person anymore, would you?

I thought not.

5

i assume, through your rage, that you get more money for one day of retirement paytime than you do for one day of active work, so the system is screwed if they think they can get you back, right? right?

6

All you non, not ever, wouldn’t be caught dead, didn’t do it types and your opinions are so --------------! You have not been there, put up with what had to be put up with to get the pittance they call retirement an… Grrrr

Retire from a civilian job and then the company prez gets in a bind and wants some help and you say sure dude!!! Oh but first he says, “I won’t pay out of the retirement fund for you what you have already earned while I am using your services these x days a week.” You all will go for that, right?

7

Wait a minute here. They offered you normal pay for your training days at the expense of your current 50% pay for retirement.

Current Retirment pay: 1408.95 (E-7 @ 20 yrs)
Drill pay: 375.72 (E-7 @ 20 yrs)
Retirement pay after subtracting 4 days (standard drill weekend pay equivalent): 1221.09
Annual Training Pay: 1408.95
Loss of Retirement Pay during AT: 704.43
What they’re offering you: $187.86/month + $704.43 AT Pay

I don’t know how much BAS and Housing would come into play on your Annual Training and drill weekends, but it can’t be less than you get for being retired (which is nothing). $187.86 is better than a sharp stick in the eye, but I can see where you would be a bit upset considering that all the other Master Sergeants are getting $375.72. OTOH, it really all depends on how much you value time spent in the company of other NCOs. I know some retirees that wouldn’t mind dressing up and playing soldier for two days a month for $187. It beats “honey-dos” on the weekends. Unfortunately, the Army isn’t quite so hard up for senior NCOs. A retired bush-bunny isn’t as likely to get a cushy contractor’s job at Westinghouse or Raytheon.

8

Well, I wish I could say I sympathize, Bluepony, but what did you expect? Dual pay? I understand that the Air Force desperately needs new men, but are they really going to violate common sense to beef up their ranks? As has already been pointed out, you can’t get “retired pay” if you’re not longer “retired”.

And CatBiker…

While this may be true, it’s not a very convincing argument. A person need not directly experience something in order to be able to have substantial thought on it.

9

Spoofe, remember Bluepony can sit on his ass all day long and collect that retirement pay, he’s earned it. The Air Force has agreed to give him that money with the understanding that they will get ZERO work from him. The AF is asking him to come out of retirement with the promise of incremental income significantly less than standard active duty pay. What kind of incentive is that?

He always has the option of getting a job somewhere else and getting “dual pay”, there is nothing stopping him, and the AF knows this. If they want experienced people to come out of retirement, they need to provide adequate compensation. Giving them an additional half day’s pay for a full day’s work is not the way.

Gee, I wonder why they are critically short of experienced personnel?

10

I’m with Spoofe on this one, Catbiker. The argument “you weren’t in the military” is just hogwash when it comes to how the taxpayer’s nickel is spent on that military. Last I checked, the military served the country, not the other way around.

And, FWIW, I am a retired Petty Officer First Class, US Navy.

11

Not to mention that there are very, very few civilian companies any more that pay for retirement. In fact, I’m the only person I know who has a pension fund.

12

The crack about having not been there was iffy… My Bad - maybe-

Now, Still, would someone tell me why if I work at ANY government job and do my duty and retire and get my retirement that if I am asked, not that I ask, but that the government asks for me to come help them out some more that it is okay for them to pay me less than they pay a man who is not retired? They said I get $xx.xx for what I have already done. Why is doing more worth less because they are paying what they agree they owe for past service?

I think you guys and gals are just pissed cause it is tax $$$ that pay for it. Serve the country makes it okay :: sheesh :: ya right…

Take the words government or military out of it and all that are saying it is okay would do the same for their employer even if he said he would deduct that part out of the money he paid into your 401K or what ever. Take it out of what he already owes/gave you for services renederd.

I bet not.

13

I beleive that Catbiker and bluepony have valid points. The business (US Gov’t) agreed to pay military retirees X dollars once their agreed upon service was completed. At the end of this service, if they want to hire them back, they should pay them at the same rate others are getting while still paying them the previously promised retirement pay.

For example:

I am hired at WigWog, Inc. with the understanding that when I retire after 20 years of service, I will receive 100 a month. I retire aftter that time and begin collecting my retirement pay. WigWog, Inc. decides they’d like to hire me back as a level 2 Muckity-Muck. This job pays 200 a month. They then tell me that I’ll only be making 100 a month because my previously promised retirement pay will be deducted from that salary. That is rediculous! If I do not agree to work for them, they still have to hire somebody as a level 2 Muckity-Muck at 200 a month. They still have to pay me my 100 a month retirement. In other words, they still have to shell out the same 300 bucks a month, but they do not get the 20 years of level 2 Muckity-Muck experience that I could have brought to the table at no additional cost to them.

14

Maybe they could skim a little off the pensions of the ex-members of congress (I’m assuming the American system pays its ex-congress members a healthy pension for life like the Canadian system does). That would balance the books, wouldn’t it? (Said with extreme sarcasm - my opinions about people giving themselves lifetime pensions for 4 years of service may be the subject of another rant someday.)

15

One question I have is whether reserve service can be counted to increase military retirement pay received for twenty years of active duty. When my dad retired from the Guard, he had 31 years service combined active and reserve, which would raise his retirement pay quite a bit over what he’d have got with only 20 years combined. Granted, he has to wait until 62 to collect it, but it’ll be a hefty chunk considering what he put in to get it (~$900/mo for 8 years active and 23 Guard).
That may be another point to take up with the recruiter. Besides, if Bp makes another stripe in the USAFR, his retirement pay should go up with it, IIRC. There’s more here than what is involved in working for a civilian employer. Besides, what civilian employer offers 50% pay after 20 years service?

16

I can’t address your other questions very well as I know absolutely nothing about military service, ranks, pay, etc.

As for the last question you ask, I don’t think that is really fair. The fact is not what other companies do, the fact is these retirees were offerred this retirement package. They should get that retirement package and not be penalized for it if they go back to work. Also, isn’t it the case that they would have to pay the full salary to a non-retiree who fills the position? So basically, if they pay the retiree the salary minus the pension, they are effectivly saving the amount of the pension and getting a more experienced person in that position. How is that fair to the retiree?

17

Perhaps I could mention just a couple of salient points here:

[ul][li]At the time the OP retired, military retirement (actually, it’s a retainer pay but the law calls it retirement apparently so the exspouses can get part of it {different issue to be saved for a different rant of my own although I’m not exposed to that division of said pay}) was a non-contributory plan so comparing it to a contributory plan isn’t exactly kashrut.[/li][li]The law pertaining to how the pay works if one comes back on active duty from the retired rolls was already in place at the time the OP retired, so it’s not exactly like it should’ve come as a complete surprise.[/ul][/li]
Disclaimer: The foregoing should not be taken as to imply that I, Monty, actually agree with the laws governing the retired/retainer pay of military members, but should only be taken to indicate that I’m relating the facts as I recall them, IIRC.

18

Great points by everybody on both sides. I do apologize for sounding like I’m whining about it. Actually, I’ve got nothing to whine about, really, because I am a civilian now. The fact is that retired military recieve retired pay, not a pension. That little matter of semantics is the reason that they can drag out the matter of “dual compensation”.

I would come out ahead if it was just one weekend a month. However, the two weeks annual duty a year would be a financial loss to me. The salary my company pays me bi-weekly is significantly higher than what I would recieve as an E-7. I would have to do my annual tour on my vacation time to earn company paycheck along with my Reserve duty. My employers are great in supporting their Guard and Reserve employees. I could manage on E-7 pay and allowances for two weeks in place of my regular job, however the loss of half of my retirement pay along with that for that month is just a little too much to expect from most people.

Another fact lost by the people that have devised this program is that the economy is good and a lot of my peers are not scraping by, trying to make ends meet. The military did a great job in preparing a lot of us to competitively meet the civilian job market and land good jobs and careers. Unfortunately for the Air Force Reserve, they have to realistically compete for those skills and experience that they want so bad. In the long run, it’s been proven that the strength of our military is in the personnel and their training.

I’m not looking to financing a new BMW, courtesy of the USAFR, however I am not keen on getting shafted either, considering I’m offering to lay my ass out on the line one more time. This time I have a say in that matter. I don’t have to put up with anything else in order to finish out my 20. Been there, done that. This is my time now and, IMHO, I think that their dual compensation premise is totally unrealistic in this day and age.

19

Long time no see… good points as usual… be cool…

20

Drat, Cat; I thought I was cool already.

Actually, I’ve been incredibly busy. It was sheer heck standing guard at two private parties at the Concours d’Elegance at Pebble Beach over the weekend. But someone had to do it & since my college classes don’t start up until Monday, I figured I’d go get payed for it!

{Noticed in preview} Forgot to mention: Thanks!