Black Myth Bustin'...OJ Simpson

Me too. Maybe it’s the same guy?

I’m probably going to regret participating in this thread tomorrow, but here goes:

The whole country ended up way too invested in that trial, and IME, the black community let it go before the white community did. OJ getting off was a miscarriage of justice, but some people, in some cases the *same *people who don’t want to hear about the current ‘case of the week,’ have managed to maintain a level of outrage about the case that is usually only seen in families of the victims. I think this sort of plays into the ‘murder’/murder thing **Nzinga **speaks about. OJ, along with lots of other murderers, belongs in prison. While he’s arguably the most high profile example of someone who got off scot-free, I think the blacks moved more quickly into the “what’s done is done, so lets move on” mode, that usually happens with these high profile cases that turn into media circuses, Nancy Grace’s efforts, notwithstanding.

Just my opinion, not speaking every black person etc., etc.

White here, involved in many interracial and intraracial relationships over the years, early 30s when verdict happened.

I have in my mind that immediately after the murders, before the arrest various theories were raised in the press in some detail.

After the arrest, I never saw them discussed at all, not even to debunk plausibility, and they seemed plausible to me, having lived in very violent, racially charged cities my entire adult life until then. Maybe you have seen two tv series about it - Homicide and The Wire.

Anyways, I didn’t feel the prosecution met its burden of proof, because they never presented enough evidence to rule out alternate theories of the crime, even having seen there evidence and witnesses impeached, they left it to the jury to decide. Big mistake in retrospect.

Inparticular one early theory of the crime that dropped like a rock once OJ was arrrested, but which in public was never ruled out via persuasive direct evidence, was that Nicole Simpson’s friend, I forget her name, was in way over her head with some drug dealers, and either a message was sent, or possibly the wrong person was hit, or what was planned to be a threat got out of control.

You’d have to look a the relatively early news articles to find why that was even a theory at all. But one thing is clear - once OJ was arrested NO work was done to follow up on alternate theories, even to rule them out. At least clear in the sense that at trial, no evidence was presented that closed the book on alternate theories. And that is prosecution’s burden, not defense.

I remember waiting months and months for this to come up. that it didn’t told me he would not be convicted even if Furman sprouted a halo on the stand and the glove fit like, well, a glove.

Doesn’t mean he didn’t do it, it means we don’t know beyond the level that the prosecution alone is burdened with persuading, ,no matter how neat and tidy we want it to be.

In that sense, no other verdict was possible, and it is not a matter of getting away with anything, it is a matter of the Court making sure that the prosecution met its burden.

Note that the burden was different in the civil case, and so was the result. In the civil case, I don’t think presenting alternate theories even with evidence would have altered whether plaintiff met its lowered burden or not.

And in my experience in Baltimore, this has little to do with wealth, race, or celebrity status, only failure of prosecution to meet its burden, which happens all the time.

Arrest =/= guilty, and thank goodness for that.

I believe it was Gavin DeBecker who wrote what a tragedy that this became almost entirely an issue of race when the case could have been, at the very least, used to highlight the danger faced by women in abusive relationships (and the increased danger they face through leaving them).

I’ve never heard it firsthand, but I’ve heard and read some things that could be characterized as Schadenfreude. I didn’t even know this was a thing until I saw a clip from from Bill Maher’s show where he casually brought up “. . . and the majority of black women believe O.J. is innocent, for instance . . .”, to back up some larger point he was making to his guest. I was thinking ‘Wow, that can’t be right’, and then later ‘Hmm, . . . Bill Maher is kind of a jagoff.’

I think I read that, too. Gift of Fear, right? I remember him saying that stuff about how predictable it can be (murder/abusive relationships).

Apologising in advance for the vagueness …

A few years I saw a show on either the History channel or Discovery channel which “examined” the idea that it was his son. I suspect the level of scholarship was on par with the moon hoax show, but they did a pretty good job of presenting their case. I imagine the person you were speaking to had also seen that show.

Agreed that the prosecution really, REALLY screwed the pooch – hell, they fucked that bitch to the moon and back.

Of course, O.J., in addition to being guilty (IMHO), is also stupid as all hell. The “if I did it” book, and of course last year’s robbery. “Oh, well I was taking back stuff that belonged to me!!! Waaaah!!!” Kind of like Al Capone, now he’s in jail, if not for murder, his stupidity and arrogance finally caught up to him.

I dunno about that - his ability to make a living was taken by the civil verdict. Who wouldn’t end up desperate eventually in that situation? Remember he was a very bankable movie start at some point prior. Probably hasn’t been able to earn dollar one since then. It all has to run out eventually.

And by the way, I am sure you know, and internalize “innocent until proven guilty” You might really mean “I think he did it”, not “He is guilty as hell”, right? Unless you DON"T believe in “innocent until proven guilty” I suppose.

Doing it is one thing, but it takes a successful prosecution before you are guilty, and that can happen whether you did it or not.

That’s the one. He was right, though – despite the celebrity angle and conspiracy theories, the crime itself (killing a former intimate partner as well as her lover/witness) was sadly par for the course. Useful book, can’t recommend it enough (after having it recommended to me a million times).

I think we can all at least agree that the majority of whites believes 9/11 was an inside job. :wink:

Huh? The prosecution is supposed to present alternate theories of who might have committed the crime? Or produce alibis for the other six billion people on Earth who aren’t being charged with the crime?

This is the way it works. A crime occurs. Assuming it’s newsworthy, the media reports it. In the absense of any knowledge of the facts, there will be a lot of speculation about various possiblities. The police meanwhile gather evidence. If everything works out, the evidence will point to a suspect. That suspect is arrested and if the evidence is sufficient is charged and tried.

The police didn’t just arrest O.J. Simpson on a whim or because he was one possible suspect. They had ruled out all of the other alternate theories already, which is why they arrested O.J. Simpson.

And keep in mind that on June 12, 1994, O.J. Simpson was a popular actor and former athlete. Most of the police were probably hoping they’d get a chance to hang out with the guy not arrest him.

If it helps meet their burden, they ought to consider actually proving that alternatives are not possible.

I know they don’t have to - and they didn’t - and that the jury is likely instructed to not consider evidence not presented.
But that means, if the evidence has holes in it, and it is not like the public and new analysts hadn’t spotted the holes ahead of time - then the prosecution is taking a grave risk not sealing them up.

Remember, prosecution can’t appeal the verdict. They have to do their best first time because it is the only time.

Sure, and their testimony was impeached 6 ways until Sunday. Prosecutors were experienced enough to handle that , and they didn’t. Whose fault is that?

Most, yeah, probably. But they arrest celebs all the time there, no big deal.

Anyway, if that is a good line of evidence to prove OJ did it, to rehab the impeached cops, then the prosecution should have gone for it. Maybe they did, I don’t recall, but if so, it clearly was not sufficient.

Bottom line, prosecution had a burden to meet, same as any trial, same as they had been taught since day one of law school how to meet. They didn’t meet it. Defendant walks. That 's life, and we, as Americans prefer it that way compared to the alternatives, every last one of them.

His NFL pension brings in $25,000 a month, money that can’t be taken away by the civil judgments against him. He probably has a lot of debt but he could have lived out his years quietly, comfortably.

I wonder how many black (or non-black) people really think he is guilty but the white bitch got what she deserved and I can’t really say that. So they say he is innocent.

For the moment OJ should consider himself lucky to only be in prison and not on death row.

I have heard the cops were so dumb they could not frame a guilty man.

BTW, at the time the alleged frame job started, the cops had no way of knowing if OJ had a solid alibi. That was when they found the bloody glove. It would be really dumb to try to frame someone without knowing their alibi status.

That’s the biggest kick-to-the-balls of the “I believe he’s innocent” people. For all the police knew, OJ could have been giving a speech in front of 5,000 people when the murders occured.

Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates.

Yes, but it must be very pricey to hunt for the real killers one golf course at a time.

Re: the OP

All I know is that I was in a restaurant in Atlanta when the verdict was delivered, and the black customers in the place (and there were a lot of them) errupted in raucous cheering and celebration when the words “not guilty” were uttered. Now maybe they didn’t really think he was innocent, and were just happy to see him get off anyway, but there were certainly more than “a few” who were happy to see OJ acquitted.

In context, you have to remember that this was three years after the Rodney King fiasco, so I got the sense that a lot of blacks saw the verdict as some kind of karmic payback for the acquittal off the Rodney King cops. It may not have had much to do with whether they really thought OJ was guilty or not.

No, what’s being described in this thread is simple racial tribalism. As long as we can get ours, you all, including his victim, can go to hell. And that’s not a particularly laudable sentiment; I don’t think it’s that much of an improvement over believing that OJ was innocent for tribal reasons “because he’s one of us”

I think the experience of a white ex-prosecutor might differ somewhat from that of various parts of the African-American community when it comes to treatment by the LAPD.

It actually doesn’t matter if O.J. was framed by the police, or even how difficult such a frame up woud have been (of course it matters, just not for what I am saying…). The bottom line is that such a frame up was seen as plausible by large elements of the community who had experienced LAPD tactics.