While I know that we have posters here who can tell that someone is an illegal immigrant just by looking at them, I’m curious how you tell the difference between a resident of section 8 housing, and someone who simply lives next door to them in the same complex?
Not being snide (even though my reference to the illegal immigrant spotters was snide, but directed at them), assuming you have such knowledge, I simply don’t know of a method to do so without inside knowledge.
Why are you consorting with criminals, if I might ask?
As an aside, my mother often worked directly with some very very poor people, and I was often brought along. One time, we delivered oranges to them, and I don’t think I had ever seen the families happier. It was explained to me that that was considered a luxury, and that luxuries for them was a very rare thing. Perhaps for those poor people who drive nice cars (not to be confused with the large numbers of well-off blacks that drive nice cars that they can easily afford, which is happily becoming a very ordinary thing where I live), it’s just an extension of that. When they are out running around in their cars, they don’t feel as poor as they actually are, nor are they perceived as such in those situations. The “lobsters on food stamps” issue seems like the same thing to me. Perhaps it’s a family that has just gotten by for months, and decide to scrape by for a few weeks to be able to afford something really nice for a given celebration. I’ll note that we’ve discussed the “lobsters on food stamps” issue before, and at the time, I had access to data that demonstrated that it really wasn’t the problem it’s made out to be. I’ll dig up the thread if it remains on the table here.
It’s not how I live my life, but I do understand it, even if it’s far removed from my situation.
Nor do I.
But I was once in a profession that put me in contact with people that were often in Section 8 housing, among other things, so it would be fair to say that I had inside knowledge about specific cases.
Did you read the text you quoted?
Fair enough. I was confused by your use of the word “see”, and assumed it meant visually identified.
Does “knowing” = consorting? Doesn’t matter. The truth is, I have consorted with criminals.
I just grew up around it. My cousins, nephews, the man my sister married…
When I grew up in the projects (actually, more of a rundown townhouse), I met lots of young people with whom I bonded. I came of age with them, and we all considered ourselves family. 75% of the males in that group have ended up drug dealers. I watched it happen before my very eyes, starting when we were very young.
My uncles all were involved with it, my cousins. When you are born poor, you are going to know a lot of people who are eking out a living that does not include college or tradeschool. I kind of ups the probability that they may go wayward.
My own brother got pulled into it, and he had a two parent home and parents that impressed upon him the importance of morality and education. Luckily, my brother left that behind, educated himself, became a professional and a pastor. He drives a very nice truck by the way.
To be fair, he also believes it is important to own a home, and he does.
This is a very weak response. You are listening in on a private conversation. You are unhappy with the opinions being expressed in that conversation. Your reaction is to take it to Human Resources?
I work for a large corporation. I understand the workplace rules and I understand that your complaint would have been taken seriously–perhaps even prosecuted in some way. But if you really want to show strength, engage them in a adult conversation and educate them. Don’t shout. Don’t get pissed. Don’t go find Daddy HR. Just make your point.
It’s pretty natural for one group to look at another group and out of envy or ignorance make disparaging remarks. I rather suspect no group is particularly more sinful on this account than others. If you can’t let it go, you’ll do a lot more for the group you want to defend by being strong enough to defend it yourself.
I believe you may be right but I just don’t want to. I don’t want to have these conversations at work. I wasn’t really listening in on a private conversation, because they were loud and inclusive, (I mean, other jerks from other programs were joining in to agree).
I don’t feel like having to defend my friends and family at work. It is annoying. I hate the idea that I was weak. But I just didn’t want to have a long debate with the racists at work.
Well, I was kidding a little. I didn’t expect to say you know tonnes of drug dealers.
But that second paragraph I quoted is contradictory. No judgments here but not being able to pull enough together to buy a 18 yr old car is, actually, kinda broke.
eta: wait a sec, are you saying their highest aspiration in a car purchase is a 1990 Honda? If so, I bow and would like to meet your Buddha like drug dealers.
Oh! That joke went over my head. Sorry. I think my humor takes a hit when I get all worked up over stuff.
Also, every car I have ever owned has come to me with over 100,000 miles on it. So yeah, my idea of flat broke may differ from most peoples’.
“Cause I said so” is hardly a compelling argument, and far from “myth busting.”
The highest aspiration in a car purchase is a Benz truck or something. But the truth is most drug dealers are driving ‘hoopties’. Very old cars that are falling apart. Many drug dealers are straight up on the Timberland highway.
If they are lucky, they get a fairly decent car with no rust, that drives like crap.
My statements are the truth. If someone is laboring under myth, and they hear the truth, they can take it or leave it. If they decide to leave it, they are still laboring under myth. If they believe the truth when they hear it from one who is living it, they can consider one myth busted.
I have no illusions that I offer ‘compelling arguments’. I am just bringing the straight up truth. Raw with no chaser.
Nonsense. That’s nothing more than your ‘truth’; your anecdotal story.
Ok. What else can I offer? What if you had to put up with hearing all the time about how the raindog family eats spinach for dinner every night. The rain dog family, and his neighbors and friends eat spinach every single night.
So you decide to say, “Hey. I’m going to let everyone know that I don’t eat spinach every night.”
What could you do other than *tell * people that you don’t? Then hope they would say, “I bet they eat other things too.”
Maybe the people that are spreading the spinach lies won’t be convinced, but others within earshot may be.
Then they may teach their own children, and so on, until the truth is out.
My worst fear is that young black children will buy into the myth that all of the nice cars they see going down their block belong to drug dealers. Then they may get the idea that they should sell drugs in order to get flashy things.
I want to get the truth out, as I know it. I don’t know what else I can do to get the truth out other than to speak it outright.
This is all well and good, but if you have spent your life trying to educate people… it gets old after a while. I met with a group of African-American honors students this week at my college. They all related stories of people asking them how they got into the program, what were their SAT scores, how did they overcome the problems of the ghetto and get to college (most of these kids are comfortably middle class). They also talked about people making prejudicial or racist statements in class - and the pressure to respond. If they say something they’re viewed as “angry Black students” or “political correctness police.” If they don’t say anything, people take their silence as tacit approval.
It’s the same with ignorant people at work. The OP shouldn’t have to educate people unless she feels like it. Ignorant adults are harboring their own problems, and the OP might be like me - if I choose to engage in a conversation to enlighten someone, it’s because a) I like them, b) I have time to kill, and/or c) I’m being compensated in some way. Otherwise HR can do their job.
Each person has a right to spend her money any way she wants to. She also has a right to think that another person is wise or foolish in how he spends his money. The strange thing is that it is none of his business what she thinks of him.
Did they refer specifically to African-Americans or Blacks or did they refer to welfare recepients? If I were you, I would be consistent in responding to what they say and I would keep track of the date and time. (But that is me and I would want to follow through if they did not cease.) If they don’t stop, then I would follow company policy for office harassment to a “t.”
In fact, one of the things you might do to get them to stop is to make sure that they are sent a copy of the company policy on race and on harassment and on the steps that can be taken for filing a grievance against fellow employees.
Really? Sudhir Venkatesh’s paper, “An Economic Analysis of A Drug-Selling Gang’s Finances”, looks at a Chicago gang, and notes that most of the entry-level “working stiff” guys actually make about as much, or less, than someone in a comparable position at MickeyD’s. For these people, the attraction of dealing is the opportunity to move up to (rare and competitive) higher-paid positions, and social status - not the salary they earn on the bottom rungs. www.streetgangs.com/academic/gangfinance.pdf
I’d welcome comments from any EconiDopers who take issue with this study, but my understanding is that it was fairly well regarded - Venkatesh actually spent quite a lot of time with an actual drug-selling gang for his research. And it formed the basis for a chapter of “Freakonomics”, for whatever that’s worth.
The point of all this is - I’d expect to see quite a lot of broke-ass drug dealers. Dealing is a high-profit business - but that profit stays near the top.