[QUOTE=Paladud]
No shit. Out here in California, 30-50K is practically your monthly mortgage payment.
This is not a new issue, or even an urban issue.
I recall many discussions while growing up in the Southeast back 40-50 years ago regarding people that lived in ramshackle houses in the country that sometimes just had a piece of material hanging where the front door should be but a new Cadillac in the front yard. Were they accused of being drug dealers, no. Were they accused of being foolish, yes. Was there resentment tied to possible welfare fraud, that too. Was it racist - not for the most part, it was just mainly ridiculing the foolish no matter what race they were from.
[QUOTE=Paladud]
What, do you think they’re a myth or something? They exist in the city. Not all of them in bad areas, and sometimes the area only looks bad.
On edit:
I see you’re from California…that explains it. Housing isn’t as expensive in the rest of the country.
[QUOTE=Nzinga, Seated]
A lot depends on their motivation and actions.
Way you describe it, these people are doing their best to make a neighbourhood into a good community - in effect, to turn it into a nice neighbourhood. If so, more power to 'em. That can’t be anything but admirable.
However … if what people are doing is deliberately choosing to stay in a dangerous neighbourhood because it is cheap, so that they can afford more frivolous luxuries like fancy cars - well, let’s just say that is fine for single people, but anyone who deliberately subjects their dependents to the additional danger and unpleasantness of living in a self-described “ghetto” had better have some more compelling motivation than owning an otherwise-unaffordable luxury car, if they are to avoid a certain amount of scorn for their choice.
[QUOTE=Yag Rannavach]
Seriously, would you mind listing such a location? I’m not being snarky here.
I’m curious too; people I know in other parts of the US still live in houses that are at least 100K, and quite a few of them are on tight budgets in very modest houses.
[QUOTE=Paladud]
Just to check this out, I ran a home search for some of the small towns in my area (outskirts between Buffalo and Rochester NY). Here are a couple of homes in the 30-50K range. Both of them are in safe areas, and are not in a large city. They are not the great, nor do they have much land, but they exist. Most of the places listed in that range were double-wides though.
Generally speaking, the mortgage payment that sounds expensive now will actually be inexpensive in 10-15 years. Thats usually the way it turns out. Rent prices go up with the times and trends. Someone who purchased a home 15 years ago (30 year fixed) will be making payments that are less than the current rental prices and usually get a lot more for the money. This point really matters at age 65 or whenever one retires…especially if their only income will be social security. It can be extremely expensive for a person on a low fixed income to pay current rental prices unless they live in the ghetto. And then they end up with nothing in the end…but hey…they drove a really nice car 15 years ago.
Again with the ‘scorn’. Ok. Scorn away. People who go around scorning others for their choices earn my scorn and the scorn of thousands of honorable hard working ghetto residents. There. Scorn on you. Try to avoid voicing your scorns loudly about things of which you are incorrect in the workplace, and we will be cool.
I don’t know what you mean by ‘turning’ it into a nice neighborhood. We love our community and our people. We are poor and we work hard. We will not let the low level drug dealers and crack addicts define us as a community, but they are ours too, and their problems are our problems. Most of us have no intention of moving out of our communities, and most of us aren’t about to alllow others to decide whether or not we should spend our hard earned dollars on whatever things we please. We deserve to have some luxuries in life, just like anyone who was born into an upper middle class family. Maybe we can’t have the same amount of luxuries, maybe there won’t be pools in the yard or, summers in Rome, or even Christmases with lots of presents and a tree…but we can sure choose to buy a damn nice car if we so please.
Let’s not make this personal, OK?
[ /Moderating ]
My apologies. I got a bit carried away there.
[QUOTE=Paladud]
Rural Ohio and rural Indiana, to name two. I’ve looked for homes in both states and houses at that price are available. They are usually neither large nor fancy, but usually are quite liveable. (Although I would look carefully at anything listed under about $40,000 - it might need substantial work.)
My house is about 1250 sq. ft and we have 1 1/3 acres with an old one-car garage. I looked it up on the county assessor’s site and for tax purposes it is valued at $55,000. It’s nothing fancy but it’s not a dump either.
[QUOTE=Paladud]
We bought this house for $12,500 about 4 years ago. Wasn’t the greatest house in the greatest neighborhood, but it wasn’t that bad–completely livable. It was walking distance to downtown Little Rock. We never lived in it–it was an investment property.
Big hat no cattle.
On another note, some mentioned 100k house or 30k car. In california it’s 800k house or 30k car. This is where I’ll give the kid a break who springs for the car. The sillyness can go both ways.
I don’t understand why it’s so wrong to find something funny. It’s someone’s preference to wear neon-green spandex pants, but that doesn’t mean I can’t think, “Oh no she is NOT wearing that!” when I see her. It is someone’s preference to tattoo “I’m an ASSHOLE” on their forehead, but that doesn’t I can’t think, “Gee, what an asshole!” when I see him.
When I see a kid with no college education, working at an entry-level job, who’s driving a car more expensive than 80% of cars on the road, I’m going to think whatever the hell I want to think. Maybe amusement will be my reaction. Or maybe I won’t think anything at all.
Instant gratification is killing many black people. If just a few more of us saved more and invested in appreciable wealth, we might not have some of the problems that plague our community. You’ve painted a romantic, rosy picture of folks in the 'hood, and I don’t deny that those people exist. My folks intentionally brought up our family in a neighborhood that could be judged as “dodgy”, and none of us turned out to be drug dealers or crack whores. But for every hardworking couple doing everything right, you’ll find a baby momma spending a God-awful amount of her paycheck on getting her nails and hair “did” or buying Nike sneakers for a two-year-old baby. Or you’ll find a young man who has a minimum wage job struggling to make a car note, when he could easily save his money by taking a damn bus. It is will within both of their rights to spend their money the way they want to, but that doesn’t mean that their spending behavior is healthy or that I have to just shrug my shoulders and think, “None of my business!”. I don’t have children, but you better believe if my nephew buys a car more expensive than mine before he finishes his education, I’m going to let someone know how I feel.
I don’t spread myths about anyone, at least intentionally. Just as you do, I have first-hand experience about what I speak. So if you’re tempted to respond that I don’t know what I’m talking about and that I’m hurting black people with my less-than-happy words, please don’t.
It’s not at all wrong. It was a serious question and I was genuinely curious. I laugh at cars with spinners on their rims. Find it funny and corny. But just cause someone chooses to buy a car instead of a house? Even if one finds that stupid, I still don’t see the humor. If you do, feel free to laugh. I’m not mad at ya. Now if you want to add to my analogy that he is uneducated, entry level, whatever, fine. I admit it is annoying when people keep implying that I advocate kids not getting a college education, but fine. The truth is many of the young men I work with are educated, and while their jobs may not be prestigious, they are smart and are climbing the ladder. Ditto for barbershop owners, hair salon owners, soul food restaurant owners, young men who run studios from their (rented) attics and make their money with their music. If they choose to buy a flashy car then good for them.
One can cruise through our neighborhood and smirk in amusement all they like, assuming that our young black men are uneducated. But that smirk will say more about them that it says about the young men they direct it towards.
I hope this isn’t an implication that I go around condemning black people from saying anything bad about the ghetto, or shouting them down about not knowing what they are talking about. 'Cause that aint my style, so this last sentence seems a bit out of place to me.
I wonder why people often accuse me of painting a rosy picture of the ghetto. The ghetto already has a crappy picture painted. All around us people keep trying to show it to us. We get it. Please don’t give us a hard time when we take the time to point out that some of the crap that has been splattered on our picture really does have some roses underneath it.
Loses its humor for me if the cowboy likes hats and doesn’t want cattle. But I am not offended by your laughter. Have at it.
There are more choices.
It isn’t “a nice car” or “a crappy home in your own neighborhood” - you can move. You can take the money and save it (or spend it on expensive wine).
However, most people don’t have the courage to step outside what they know. They don’t believe they could move to rural Indiana from inner city Chicago and buy a home and get a job and have a better life (and maybe they can’t - cheap houses don’t tend to be in areas with negative unemployment). Spending money today (even money you don’t have and need a car loan for - or credit card bills) leaves most of us feeling a lot better than saving it so we have it to spend tomorrow. This isn’t a ghetto problem - but its intensified with poverty. The poorer you are, the less you are able to see possibilities - even the possibility of tomorrow.
(Also, There Are No Children Here, by Alex Kolowitz on growing up in the ghetto and what possibilities you can see from inside urban poverty - and, of course, race.)