Black Panther movie (Marvel Cinematic Universe)

Most of the slave trade was carried out by established African political entities. For instance the Songhai Empire, the Dendi Kingdom and earlier the Mali Empire. Its not like Europeans showed up at an African beach with nets and grabbed the first people they saw. Plus there was a lot of levels of trade in slaves within the continent before they got to the Americas. X would capture slaves to sell to Y who would sell them on to European traders. Whydah was a small kingdom which regularly bought out slaves from elsewhere and then sold them on.

And so cute that you think a slave of whatever description retains the right to call myself a human being’. A slave is by definition property. I’d rather not be property.

Fuck you.

!!! I missed that at the time! Fantastic.

Eta: Nm.

It was said when they brought Ross in from Pusan.


OK, first of all, monstro, telling another poster “fuck you” is not acceptable anywhere on this board, not even in the Pit (which we aren’t in). This is an official Warning.

That said, I understand that you were provoked. AK84, it looks like you brought up slavery just for the purpose of scoring political points, and your “so cute” comment is dangerously close to the “personal insults” line. Drop all discussion of the slavery question, and reign in the condescension.

On Further Review

I’d forgotten that this was the same thread that I had just given a different Warning for politicking in. Given that, AK84’s post looks a fair bit more jerkish. It was already very close to the line; that’s enough to put it over. This is also therefore a Warning for AK84.

Hmm. Any volunteers to break the news to AK84 that in real life Captain America would have been a puny civilian who died around 1985 and Stark Industries would have manufactured run-of-the-mill military aircraft until bought out by Lockheed Martin?

It’s kind of bizarre how so many MCU viewers who’ve been just fine all along with suspending disbelief about a superhero team having a United Nations charter and recruiting extraterrestrial divinities from the ancient Norse pantheon and so on are suddenly bitching about the “unrealistic” premise of an African nation that’s wealthy and technologically advanced.

Yes, but the significance of “another” didn’t become clear till the final post-credits sequence.

‘Black Panther’ Smashes Box Office Records and Hollywood Myths

I had initially thought we would sit this one out - mainly due to the local theatre not having standard 2-d seats available other than past matinee and them pushing i-Max pricing and seats during the times we go. (I take the family, so this makes it 20 vs 10 per ticket - doubling the cost).

As it got closer and closer - I went ahead and grumbly bought the tickets - and damn I’m glad we did.

This movie far exceeded my expectations - while I knew t’chala would survive, etc - there was general tension about how the movie would go. I liked the growth, I even felt bad about the killmonger and could understand/empathize with his position even as I disagreed with his methods.

I liked the not so subtle statements the movie made - made them even without having to hit you over the head with them - I loved the culture and overall beuty that seemed consistent thru out the film and story.

I especially liked the statement from the mid-credit spoiler, and its been one that has been going thru my brain alot lately - there’s more to it then this, but simply put -

“the wise build bridges while the foolish build barriers.”

Barnes was dropped off in Wakanda at the end of Captain America: Civil War.

IIRC it was one of the post credit sequences.

I’ve seen Black Panther twice now. I heard Shuri say that the first time I saw it on Thursday night, but couldn’t think of what she might mean by it (even though I had seen CA: Civil War again just a few months ago, duh), and had forgotten it by the time the post-credits scene played. The second time, last night, I knew what she was referring to and laughed. I was the only one in the packed theater who got it. Or at least, reacted.

Everything positive said above, I agree with. More Black Panther movies soon, please. I’ll also take a stand-alone Nakia, Shuria, Okoye and Ramonda film please. What great, badass, intelligent women!

I saw it tonight. Saw it with a friend who has been a reader of the Black Panther comic books since the 90s. He liked it! I’m not much of a MCU fan - I seem to only like the funny ones.

This one was particularly good because it wasn’t overly action-y. To me it feels like MCU movies are just a lot of big smashing and destruction scenes, over and over. This one had action for sure but it didn’t go over the top. It had some great hand-to-hand and sword fights which I much prefer to Avengers-type action, and the big battle was all still hand-to-hand with some superhero-to-superhero stuff.

Costumes were ridiculously good. I loved that the Wakanda tribes had tennis shoes, sunglasses and suit coats mixed in with their traditional garb and face paint. They were all stylin’.

The Wakanda “sets” were cool. I like the future city look with the African vibes (like leaf-covered balconies, hundreds of feet in the air). And a colorful marketplace.

Shuri was my favorite character. Sassy, smart and cute as heck. Okoye and Nakia were killin’ it too. Were there any boys in this movie…? Oh yeah they were all pretty great too.

It did feel kind of weird seeing Daniel Kaluuya in the movie, because I just recently saw Get Out. He seemed to play the same chill dude only this time in Wakanda wear. He acts a lot with his eyes! I just kept getting a vibe that he was Chris still in a sticky situation.

Soundtrack was pretty good.

I note that the only Caucasians in the film are Andy “Gollum” Serkis and Martin “Bilbo” Freeman.

Reeks of tolkienism to me.

Oh crap…I had to leave mid-credits because my daughter was falling asleep and it was quite a long film as it was so I missed the final stinger - if anyone would care to tell me what happened in a spoiler box or PM I’d appreciate it. We did catch the one set at the UN in Vienna.

Anyway, I absolutely loved this one - okay, so there were no particularly unexpected plot twists but then it’s an MCU superhero movie so that’s okay. Loads of fascinating and well-played characters - apart from Boseman the standouts for me were Letitia Wright’s precocious sister/mad scientist, Winston Duke’s surprisingly funny and nuanced brute, and of course Andy Serkis’s glorious, scenery-chewing maniac. I actually found Johnson a little grating for some reason (as did my wife, who thought he was “channelling a little too much Kanye” in a lot of his scenes) although he showed more range than one normally gets in homicidal bad guy roles, and both Whittaker and Freeman’s accents weren’t without the odd glitch, but those are minor criticisms.

I thought they pitched the level of comedy just right - some excellent quips in the right places which didn’t derail the action or plot. I laughed like a drain at “It’s just like riding a hoverbike.”
“You have hoverbikes?!?”

The Pan-African vibe was fascinating and slightly weird - one could spot traditional cultural and stylistic references from all over the continent as well as contemporary Western and African elements and all kinds of futuristic stuff, all mashed together in one imaginary culture. And I think it worked, which is a sort of triumph for the film.

Yeah, same here.

I kept thinking “Man, that guy looks really familiar” and did not link him to Get Out until afterwards.

The action scenes were…well, action scenes. The car chase was quite entertaining and kept to a reasonable length, while the end battles probably dragged on a little long due to having to give all umpteen characters something significant to do, and to be honest the Black Panther battle itself got slightly overshadowed by the larger fight outside. I would have agreed the battle rhinos were unnecessary except that they weren’t actually used much for the fighting and what they were used for at the end (re: the relationship) worked in context.

As a middle class white guy I wasn’t bothered at all by the lack of substantive white characters; there were plenty of good characters to watch as it was. The soapboxing was fairly heavyhanded, I will admit; that it was so broadly applied made it seem watered down and clumsily-handled, like they wanted both to raise the issue of centuries of systemic racism against blacks and to avoid making any white viewers feel uncomfortable or like they were being personally accused of anything. This political-not-political approach didn’t really work, but I appreciate that Marvel and co had a fine needle to thread from a commercial standpoint.

I will however note that with regard to Kimstu’s point about the outreach center in Oakland there is a certain wry comedy to it given that usually it’s the wealthy US doing outreach to poor oppressed Africans. One wonders whether there was a deliberate attempt to suggest the US is now a third-world country compared to rich, technologically advanced (and fictitious) Wakanda, or whether this was solely about T’Challa’s guilt about his cousin’s life and death.

Enjoyed it. Killmonger’s last words about dying free, like slaves jumping in the ocean takes the entire superhero-movie-watching experience and made me stop and go “damn.” In a good way. The movie delivers MCU goodness, but it is that messaging - and the fact that Killmonger was shown to have a valid point that T’Challa acts on - that makes this movie rise above.

My noodle points:

  • LOVED the strong women characters. If there are so many strong-ass women, physically and mentally, why can’t they be Queen? Why couldn’t the General step up at the time of crisis? I don’t know modern BP comics and have read here that Shuri becomes BP. How did that work and how to the Dora Milaje figure into her BP-ness?

  • the actor playing M’Baku was charming as heck. As for M’Baku, okay, he owes BP his life - but does he owe him the heart shaped herb? Why doesn’t M’baku snarf it down himself? ISTR that his character, in the comics, eats gorilla flesh to gain abilities (?? Funny that he says his people are vegetarians in the movie, if so). Is there some understanding that Gorilla power would be incompatible with Panther power so he couldn’t eat it anyway?

  • If the Herbs got burned, and Nakia gave the last one to T’Challa, then what? No more BP’s right? (How do they worm their way out of this one…). Also, what is the name of the Herb, or why is it described without naming it? I will go back and scan the thread - sorry if this has been discussed.

Oh, and: suburban white dad here. I totally enjoyed the overall Afro-futurist feel and Joy of Blackness vibe. I simply didn’t notice that Whites were held out as good or bad - having Ross’s character doing many heroic things was part of that, but the overall tone of the film was not about that.

I am kinda stunned this is even an issue.

Who says they can’t be? T’Challa is older than Shuri, so it’s not clear whether and how primogeniture applies.

Step up to do what? Oppose Killmonger? She makes it clear that she has a duty to support the throne and kingdom regardless of the man in charge. It’s only when full-on civil war breaks out that she changes her mind.

My reading of it is that M’baku, for all his primitivist style, is an honorable man who would see taking the herb as theft from the rightful king of Wakanda. If T’Challa had been dead M’baku may well have kept it and used it to take on Killmonger (or possibly not), but he wasn’t.

Good point, although it’s not out of the question there are a few to be found out elsewhere.

In that final three-path battle, was anyone else reminded of The Phantom Menace?

  1. Panther v. Panther: similar to the Jedi/Sith fight between Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Maul, in that they’re wire-fighting in what is essentially an automated industrial facility, the brawl occasionally interrupted by the machines going about their business.

  2. Civil War: crazy mayhem in a grassy field, reminiscent of the Gungan v. Droid battle, though blessedly free of Jar-Jarian comic relief.

  3. Ross, clueless but skilled, in his virtual warplane, shooting down other planes - they may as well be drones, since we never see the Wakandan pilots - was a lot like Anakin’s run, and this did have some mild but lame comic relief to it.
    All they needed was a fourth team who were storming the throne room for some reason.