Black Parents Demand that Catholic School Beat Their Kids?

This is an odd story that I heard about mainly because the person at the heart of the controversy was the bishop here in Austin not long ago.

Gregory Aymond, now bishop of New Orleans, has abolished the use of corporal punishment in Catholic schools under his authority.

Believe it or not, the bishop is being loudly and enthusiastically opposed by thousands of African American families!

What do we make of this? That many families WANT their kids to get a good butt whipping from time to time, just to keep them in line? That many think it’s the only way to instill the discipline they think their kids need?

You shouldn’t use ‘beat’ as a synonym for corporal punishment in schools. It is a dishonest comparison with an agenda and isn’t true in general. I grew up in Louisiana and we had corporal punishment in public schools that I was on the receiving end of more than a few times. There was nothing abusive about it and it didn’t even hurt that long or that much. It was a preferred form of punishment among students because it was administered quickly when you did certain categories of things wrong like fighting and you then went on with your business.

I assume your argument is just against corporal punishment in schools in general and nothing in particular about this case. Parents, both white and black, could fill out a form to prevent their child from receiving corporal punishment in the area I grew up in but never did. That would be dumb for several reasons.

What issues do you have with this other than black kids in New Orleans might come into contact with something you see as violence?

How about hit?
Strike?
Attack?
Assault?
Battery?
Thrash?

Strike sounds okay. The others have negative connotations that aren’t appropriate in terms of most corporal punishment IMHO. Corporal punishment was the most attractive option available when the others were detention, suspension, writing lines, additional work, or something like running additional laps in gym. I wish corporal punishment was still available for me to pick as an option today for myself. I would much rather take a fast paddling than listen to a boss drone on about something negative for example. I don’t know how people imagine corporal punishment works but we aren’t talking slave lashings here. In practice, it is just ‘pop’, mild sting, blush. The end.

Are you claiming that your experience with corporal punishment is typical of most peoples? Cite?

I don’t know about everywhere in the world but yes, that is the way it was done in Louisiana where this article is from. Corporal punishment wasn’t rare and it was usually done in front of other teachers and or students so everyone got to see it dozens or hundreds of times going through public schools. People from other schools reported the same thing. I don’t know what to cite. That is just the way it works there.

That is so much bullshit it is insane. Corporal punishment was humiliating in my school and it was by far the worst punishment. I’d rather write a thousand lines out. Give me control over my own body, please.

So if the kid or their parent picks up a chair and pounds the teacher who does such a thing until they stop squirming, I suppose we shouldn’t call that "beating’ either. It’s…extreme massage.

Is this that incomprehensible? A lot of people are idiots and think their children are their property. That’s how a significant number of people think, although it’s not as many as it once was since corporal punishment in schools is on the wane. I’m wondering why it matters that the parents in this story are black.

My school-long wooden paddle with holes drilled, pants down, in the principal’s office. Although there was no policy per se, he never seemed to call the girls in for punishment.

I don’t know that this is specifically an odd story. Spanking is more common in the south than the north, and more common among blacks than whites. So it doesn’t really surprise me that there are a bunch of black parents in New Orleans upset that their school has gotten rid of corporal punishment.

The was definately a double-standard when my mother & uncles were in school. Boys could receive CP from either a male or female teacher, often in front of other students. Only female teachers could administer CP to a girl, and she had to be taken away from other students or male staff. Also the paddle wasn’t used on girls, only hands or a ruler. In any even girls were seldom hit. This was in elementary school, by high school girls were completely exempt from CP, but boys were subject to the same policy as in grade school (though they were usually sent to the prinicpal’s office instead of being paddled in class). Both sexes were paddled fully clothed (though apparently not if you were a boy who got in trouble during gym :eek:).

Corporal punishment is still used in my state, although I think it’s a district-by-district decision and parents have to provide assent. I know it was used at the high school my wife taught at; I’ll have to ask her if it was used on the girls also.

Stories like this make me ill. In a time when we are all up in arms over kids bullying other kids, it’s still ok for adults to assault them like they are property, not people.
And yes, it is assault… try doing it to another adult and see how fast your ass winds up in jail.
When I was in high school, one day another teacher walked into the class and told one of the boys to come up to the front of the class. I don’t know the reason behind why he did this, but he made the boy do push ups while the teacher stood on his back, FFS! Our class teacher didn’t say a damn thing and just stood there watching. In fact no one said a word, guess it was just assumed that all students are the property of the school/teachers.
It’s as if “minors” have no civil or constitutional rights what so ever in this country.
They are treated as incompetent, immature babies… til they break the law and magically become adults!
This is one reason I refuse to have kids… I don’t want society treating my children like nothing more than cattle.
And yes, I know the story was about parents wanting this, but that still doesn’t make it right.

I’m appalled to hear that it wasn’t abolished decades ago, and throughout the USA. It’s backward and ignorant and educators of all people should long since have read the evidence and stopped using barbaric methods.

Yes, there are people who received it and still grew up healthy. Just because it doesn’t cause evey recipient to become a serial killer does not support it’s use.

God help anyone who raises a hand to Celtling.

If we’re expressing personal opinions, I also don’t think it should be done in schools. I don’t have a problem with parents spanking their kids, though. But all that being said, the story set out in the OP doesn’t really surprise me.

Quoth Shagnasty:

Isn’t this an argument against corporal punishment? Surely, if the students have a greater dislike of the stern talking-to or whatever, that would make that a greater deterrent to bad behavior?

And this is why it was rarely used but so effective.

I went to a Catholic school. We didn’t have discipline problems. Sister Mary Wooden Ruler saw to that. The parents who are protesting know it works and want their kids to get the same no-nonsense education they got.

Maybe but people usually present it as being cruel and my point was that the people that actually had it done to them often prefer it. It does have the advantage of being immediate after you did something rather than being long and drawn out like detention so cause and effect were always perfectly clear.

And when those children went out and assaulted those who couldn’t fight back, just like their teachers were doing to them, that was just fine right? If they go out and beat some gay guy to death for being “sinful” that’s a small price to pay to shut them up when they were in school. And yes, that is going to be the kind of long term effect you can expect; brutality spawns brutality.