Blame it on Red Skelton

Great Debates
1

I originally posted this in the “Canadian Students…” thread, but it grew to such a length in the writing that it seemed fair to give this topic its own thread.

When, as a teenager, I read Red Skelton’s commentary on the pledge of allegiance, I had an important decision to make. Basically, it came down to whether I was going to take the words seriously. Specifically, the words “pledge” and “allegiance.”

The way Skelton described it, to “pledge” your “allegiance” was to swear an oath binding yourself to promise your life, your worldly goods, and all of your aspirations to the entity to which you are pledging. I concluded that I have too much respect for the pledge itself to allow myself to give it lightly, or especially by unthinking rote.

Which was fine for me as an individual. But now Kayla is attending a preschool, and I have reason to believe that by next year, they’re going to be teaching her that thing. I’m not really sure how I feel about her learning it. On the one hand, I really believe that the pledge is properly taken only by a free citizen, acting with consciousness and deliberateness, and that to recite it by rote is to trivialize both it and the noble stated ideals of my country that it expresses. Obviously, a four-year-old is not an appropriate pledger by these criteria. On the other hand, given a few truisms about our society (e.g. “the nail that sticks up gets hammered down” – and not only in Japanese society, “patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel”, and “as long as it is done in the name of God or country, there is no atrocity so egregious that it will not be forgiven by the general public”), I find myself wondering if allowing her a bit of protective coloration might not be a wise thing to do.

It occurs to me that this could have the potential for either a Great Debate (Discuss the ethics of teaching schoolchildren meaningless political rituals), a General Question (Help me figure out how to raise my kid), or an MPSIMS (Devise a parody of the Pledge of Allegiance), but the first option strikes me as the most fertile.

So let’s get started.

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The plege dosent really count unless you understand exactly what you are saying. its as pointless as teaching a kid the words of a song that they can repeat parrot fashion unless they understand what they are saying.

I never understood my own national anthem until I learned the words of it in English when I was 12 years old…

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As the forty-something parent of 3 kids currently enrolled in the American public school system, it was with a sinking heart (“oh, no…”) that I heard your speculation aloud as to whether you ought to prevent Kayla from saying the pledge when she starts kindergarten.

I learned the pledge by rote myself, of course, and I’ve been “teacher helper” for a day in my kids’ classes here and there, and witnessed all those bright, shining faces rattle it off without a trace of comprehension.

My concern would be lest you humiliate your daughter by singling her out that way. I don’t know what kind of school system you have there, but if it’s the average American public school system, the minute you open your mouth to express your reservations, you’re going to be labeled, at the very least, “liberal”, and at the worst, “commie pinko troublemaker”. I suggest you just go with the flow and let her join in with her peer group. Time enough later for her to learn to say it with meaning.

Now, if this concerned the saying of a PRAYER, then I would say just the opposite. Although I’m a Christian, and I think people should definitely pray, still I think “separation of church and state” gives you the right to ask for an alternative activity for her.

But the Pledge of Allegiance, I’m sorry, isn’t that big a deal. I’m glad Red Skelton took it so seriously, because I don’t think it’s a joke, either. But especially for a kindergartener, first time at “real school”, it’s very difficult to be the “different” one.

And her overworked, underpaid teacher won’t thank you for it, either.

Are you interested enough to take it to court? I think that should be your criterion, because it may come to that, if you turn out to really feel strongly about it.

When I was a teenager, I remember getting EXTREMELY upset at the way the other people in my church, specifically my brother, took the Communion Service for granted. There they all stood, rattling off the phrases by rote, gulping the grape juice, swallowing the bread cubes with blank looks on their faces. I protested strongly to my parents, and they said, tactfully, “You are not the God Police. Whatever takes place in your brother’s heart during the Communion Service is between him and God. MYOB.”

So. I guess my point is that just because it looks like someone is just rattling it off doesn’t necessarily mean he isn’t thinking about the words. For all you know, Kayla may have a particularly gifted teacher who will be able to explain it so that she at least catches a glimpse of what it means.

I don’t think you’d be giving Kayla “protective coloration” at all–quite the contrary, I think you’d be dyeing her hair fluorescent orange, grafting an elephant’s trunk in the middle of her face, putting her desk up on a platform in the middle of the room, and arming all her buddies with peashooters and a lifetime supply of ammo. Prayer/religious stuff they could understand, but the Pledge? Imagine what THEIR parents are going to tell THEM about “this weird kid who won’t say the Pledge of Allegiance”.

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(God, I love that Post subject: line :))

Perhaps I was a bit too subtle, Notthemama. You opined:

And your point is well taken. I do live behind the Orange Curtain, after all. Except in MY scenario, * protective coloration* is what I allow her to have by permitting her to recite the pledge, not by forbidding it.

I do still have a year before it becomes an issue (the preschool she’s currently attending has the Pledge posted prominently in the five year-olds’ room). I’ve been thinking of introducing some irreverence to the situation when it does arise. My thought is that when she learns the rote version, I can teach her a parody of it that I worked up yesterday:
I play jelly gents
Tooth hot placque
W. knighted snakes
Bubble merry car.
And Tooth Fairy fudge lick
Four witches’ hands
Carnation
Underwear
It’s invisible
With liver, tea, and just ice
For always.

What I want to do, of course, is to subvert the indoctrination she’s inevitably going to be subjected to, at least until she has the intellectual wherewithal to observe it critically. The IPU knows, I could have used a bit of subversion in my upbringing.

John Larrigan, I hope my elucidation has been responsive to the point you made as well. BTW, in what language did you grow up reciting your pledge, Gaelic?

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Yeah, I learned it in Irish as a child, but never knew what it meant fully until later.

I’ll post a copy of it in Irish and in English later… its pretty funny… in a way I’ll explain in the path

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Amhrán na bhFiann
Sinne Fianna Fáil
A tá faoi gheall ag Éirinn,
buion dár slua
Thar toinn do ráinig chugainn,
Fé mhóid bheith saor.
Sean tír ár sinsear feasta
Ní fhagfar féin tiorán ná faoin tráil
Anocht a theim sa bhearna bhaoil,
Le gean ar Ghaeil chun bais no saoil
Le guna screach faoi lamhach na bpileir
Seo libh canaidh Amhran na bhFiann.

and in English

Soldiers are we
whose lives are pledged to Ireland;
Some have come
from a land beyond the wave.
Sworn to be free,
No more our ancient sire land
Shall shelter the despot or the slave.
Tonight we man the Bhearna Baoil (which means ‘Gap of danger’)
In Erin’s cause, come woe or weal
‘Mid cannons’ roar and rifles peal,
We’ll chant a soldier’s song
the song Is staunchly Nationalistic, and recently this was a cause of greatdiscussion when some people wanted it changed to reflect a more modern Ireland.
No Chance.

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I think the keyword in this whole discussion is something John just said: “nationalism”. Maybe as we start moving towards this semi-mythical “global village”, and as trade-deficit-wise we all start living in each other’s pockets, we can stop having to reaffirm our loyalty to one specific national group.

Also as the “commie threat” subsides… :rolleyes: That’s when the most fervent American Pledge-pushing took place, during the Cold War.

How well is the “euro” doing? I think if folks can figure out how to make that work, we might actually be onto something here.

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the Euro is sucking golf balls through Garden Hoses at the moment, but it has had a rough ride so far, with Rising Inflation and Interests Rates, but once things stablize it should be a brilliant Idea…

just one small thing.
Having faith in your country will never die, hopefully.

I think its a good thing for someone to be able to make a statement of what it means to be from a certain country. but i am digressing from the OP now…

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That’s when the phrase “under God” was added, right? It wasn’t in the original Pledge, was it?

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jab1: yes that’s right. In fact, I’m not sure of when Skelton’s little essay came out, but the last paragraph of it specifically mentioned the “under God” bit having been added later than the rest of the pledge, and lamenting the “fact” that certain elements wanted to those words taken out. AFAIK, this was the first time I was made sick to my stomach by political cant.

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The pledge was changed by Congress in 1954. And the next year “In God We Trust” was mandate to be on all coins and currency. Here’s an interesting link(sorry to be off-topic) about the religious swing in America starting with Eisenhower’s election-Under God

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I think Red Skelton first read his commentary about the pledge on his tv show in 1969.