Blue Jay's Kevin Pillar says a bad word, gets crucified.

[Calatin]

@Esco

Sure, but in that case we should start penalizing ALL slurs and insults, not just a select few

And now we’ve proved that you just don’t get it, either through ignorance or stubborn asshattery.

[Soylent_Juicy]

@RickJay

When the OP starts off with saying Pillar was “Crucified” by getting a two game suspension he did not appeal, we’re starting the discussion with hysteria, which is not a fantastic way to begin.

Oh no no no, I meant “crucified” in the media and on social media even after his apologies. I fully agree with the suspension.

[Esco]

@Little_Nemo

If you call somebody a fucking asshole, it’s a personal insult to that person.

If you call somebody a fucking faggot, it’s a personal insult to that person and to hundreds of millions of gay people.

So the two are not equivalent

And yet the insult from Pillar wasnt directed at the millions of gays in North-America, it was directed at the pitcher himself (who AFAIK isnt even gay).

Also, what if some people had a very difficult childhood and their dad beat them and constantly called his child an asshole, should that person not be offended if someone calls them asshole later in life??

[Esco]

@Calatin

And now we’ve proved that you just don’t get it, either through ignorance or stubborn asshattery

I get it fine, you want one set of rules for some people, and another for others.

That by definition is discrimination

[FloatyGimpy]

@Esco

Sure, but in that case we should start penalizing ALL slurs and insults, not just a select few

You’re being willfully obtuse and not debating in good faith. A conversation cannot be had with someone who pretends to not know the difference between “You’re a poopy-head!” and “you fucking faggot”.

Stay ignorant, dude.

[Calatin]

@Esco

I get it fine, you want one set of rules for some people, and another for others.

That by definition is discrimination

RickJay explained it very well in post #57. If you read that, and honestly can’t fathom the logic as to why “faggot,” “nigger,” and other terms berating an entire class of people are unacceptable and offensive not just to the recipient of the slur, but the entire class that has had a history of oppression (and no I am not equating blacks with homosexuals), and those terms were used derisively and call back to that oppression, then there’s really no point in engaging you in this discussion.

Watch network prime-time sitcoms. Do they say “asshole?” Yes. Do they say “idiot?” Yes.

Do they say “faggot” or “nigger?” No? Why do you think that is…

Idiot.

[Procrustus]

@Calatin

Watch network prime-time sitcoms. Do they say “asshole?” Yes. Do they say “idiot?” Yes.

Do they say “faggot” or “nigger?” No? Why do you think that is…

Idiot.

Because the networks are run by The Jews?

[Esco]

^^^^ how offensive a slur is all depends on the person who’s receiving, and what state of mind he’s in.

A person who’s been bullied all his life might take a simple comment as “idiot” and decide to hang himself…

But according to your logic thats OK, because there was only one person offended, and not an entire demographic group, am I right??

[Calatin]

@Esco

^^^^ how offensive a slur is all depends on the person who’s receiving, and what state of mind he’s in.

A person who’s been bullied all his life might take a simple comment as “idiot” and decide to hang himself…

But according to your logic thats OK, because there was only one person offended, and not an entire demographic group, am I right??

You know, all this talk about “F*gs” has started to make me hungry.

Anyone have any good recipes involving figs?

[Esco]

@Calatin

You know, all this talk about “F*gs” has started to make me hungry.

Anyone have any good recipes involving figs?

LOL…I need a cigarette myself now
(Fags = cigs in the UK for those who dont know)

[kayT]

@RickJay

When the OP starts off with saying Pillar was “Crucified” by getting a two game suspension he did not appeal, we’re starting the discussion with hysteria, which is not a fantastic way to begin.

Pillar’s suspension was merited and is in line with similar suspension for similar incidents. The Toronto Blue Jays are an entertainment organization in the business of selling public exhibitions of baseball to paying customers. There’s a character clause in Kevin Pillar’s contract for a reason; displays of vulgar and socially reprehensible behaviour are bad for his employer and merit sanction.

Pillar isn’t being overly torn apart by the media or the fan base for this. If anything, there seem to be two sides; those who think the minor suspension and apology were quite appropriate and that he seems like a generally nice guy who’s learned a lesson and those who think he should nopt be punished at all because ooh, special snowflakes shouldn’t get offended. The latter group is pig headed and wrong.
What a bunch of crap. First of all, no, there is no serious talk at all of this.

Secondly, the reason the Blue Jays traded Escobar was as part of the package to get Josh Johnson, Jose Reyes and Mark Buerhle, and the reason they were willing to include him in that package is that he wasn’t as good as the guy they were getting in return. The Blue Jays will no more trade Kevin Pillar than they’ll start playing their games in the lake. For one thing, if you’d been following the team, you would know they have essentially run out of outfielders who are eligible to play in the major leagues.

Funnily enough, I was listening to the Fan 590 this morning, as I always do, and the possibility wasn’t once mentioned. Indeed, they got a call from a gay hockey player and frequent caller who discussed the issue with quite a bit of nuance and intelligence, and he seemed to feel the suspension was plenty and the apology more than sincere. His point, indeed, was that the real problem is not, specifically, Kevin Pillar, but a general attitude of homophobia that runs through organized sports that inevitably will lead to a person - even a decent one, like Kevin Pillar - using a vulgar word in an outburst.
Of course you do. You have the right to be offended by absolutely anything. You have the right to be offended by the fact that stop signs are red, or by people walking dogs wearing bandanas, or by the fact that sometimes it rains. You may choose to take offense at anything you want. This is a free country. Do as you please.

What you don’t seem to comprehend - actually, I think you do comprehend it but won’t admit it - is that some offensive acts are more socially unacceptable than others, and for damned good reason. Calling someone a “jerk” is mildly offensive. Calling a black person a “nigger” is easily fifty times worse, maybe a thousand times worse. They’re both insults and can both be meant with hostility, but it is obvious to anyone whose brain is not made of cheese that the latter insult is extraordinarily hurtful. It is hurtful because black people have, for much longer than living memory, been subject to a great deal of abuse, discrimination, violence and disadvantage, and that word is loaded with all of those things. It hurts the feelings not only of its target but of those who hear of the slur being made in a way “jerk” simply does not. That is a fact, and it remains a fact whether you like it or not.

“Faggot” (and I will dispense with the silliness of things like n-word' and f____t’ because we are discussing these words as adults and euphemisms do not change that) is much more like a racial slur than a common insult like “jerk.” Homosexual men have it very, very rough; I hope that is not news to you, but I will assure you that if you are a white straight guy you might have a long way to go before you really understand how hurtful slurs like that can be. Gay people, unlike straight people, face a literal lifetime of fear, ostracization, hatred and insult. There are Christian radio stations that broadcast “gays are evil” probably half the time they’re on the air. Things are getting better but these are pretty recent damn developments, in case you haven’t noticed. It is within my lifetime not ancient history, that 32 (mostly) gay men were burned to death in an arson attack in a gay club, and the police and firefighters on the scene made fun of the victims, and authorities could not be bothered to make any mention or call for a moment of silence. It was just 25-30 years ago that soldiers from CFB Kingston, where I grew up, would brag of going out “Fag bashing,” hardly surprising when, at the time, the Canadian Forces had secret investigators whose job it was to entrap homosexuals so they could be thrown out of the Army. Countless gay people have been ejected from their churches, their families - literally pushed out of their families for being gay. I personally cannot even begin to imagine the pain in the heart of someone who experiences that, and ask you to think of the astounding resolve it would take for such a person to look forward to the rest of their life having to face such hideous cruelty and be willing to go on and make the best of it. If you don’t understand how the slur “faggot” can sting a person in the heart, well, you need to wake up and smell the roses, and start trying to imagine what it’s like to walk a mile in another man’s moccasins.

This is so brilliant and well put and I wish it would be read and understood by those like Esco who so desperately need to get it.

[Esco]

You guys are completely misinterpreting my comments. I’m not saying what Pillar isnt wrong and shouldnt be punished, I’m saying we need to punish slurs like this equally across the board, because you dont know what each individual person has been through in his/her life and how a particular slur can affect him/her

[Procrustus]

@Esco

You guys are completely misinterpreting my comments. I’m not saying what Pillar isnt wrong and shouldnt be punished, I’m saying we need to punish slurs like this equally across the board, because you dont know what each individual person has been through in his/her life and how a particular slur can affect him/her

Prohibiting “asshole” would be PC run amok.

[Wilson]

I think everybody gets what you are saying, Esco - it’s just that we all think you are completely wrong. All slurs are not equal.

[Enginerd]

@Esco

You guys are completely misinterpreting my comments. I’m not saying what Pillar isnt wrong and shouldnt be punished, I’m saying we need to punish slurs like this equally across the board, because you dont know what each individual person has been through in his/her life and how a particular slur can affect him/her

Nobody’s misinterpreting your comments. They’re just saying that your comments are stupid.

[Calatin]

@Wilson

I think everybody gets what you are saying, Esco - it’s just that we all think you are completely wrong. All slurs are not equal.

#AllSlursMatter

[Esco]

@Procrustus

Prohibiting “asshole” would be PC run amok

Like it hasnt run amok already :rolleyes:

@Wilson

All slurs are not equal

You hit the nail on the head. Thanks Wilson.
So you agree with me, one set or rules for some, and another for others.

Am I right??

[Esco]

@Calatin

#AllSlursMatter

Thanks Calatin. I knew you’d come around eventually

[FloatyGimpy]

@Esco

Like it hasnt run amok already :rolleyes:
You hit the nail on the head. Thanks Wilson.
So you agree with me, one set or rules for some, and another for others.

Am I right??

Yes. A 5 year old who says “doody head” has different rules than adults who hurl racial slurs. But then you already know this and are just being a disingenuous liar, cloaking your wide-eyed confusion as “just asking questions”.

Or you’re just a troll.

Stay ignorant, dude.

[Calatin]

@Esco

Thanks Calatin. I knew you’d come around eventually

Might want to read my comment for intent.