I think you’ll find few people here arguing that Fischer is NOT a genius chess player, Lib. They’re just disputing your charges that he has no ego, and that he is not an anti-Semite.
Apologies, I thought that since the group had sent the letter through a trusted confidant that they would have let that person know the contents of the letter and she was to convince Bobby to accept the letter. Obviously, the group sent the letter through her, but never let her in on what the letter contained. Rather bad strategy for a group of chess players, if you don’t mind my saying.
I’m starting to wonder if chess aficionados are all insane.
Actually, according to the article (which, incidentally, I linked to first, thank you very much Mr. Coldfire) that seemed to be the going price for the honor of even addressing Bobby Fischer.
I’m sure it was all for his love of the game and his desire to see it improve.
Liberal, even if Bobby Fisher has been handed some raw deals over time re the way the chess federations handled some of the disputes he had in his heyday, and even if he is possibly the greatest chess player/artist of the age, the fact remains that Bobby Fisher has some serious personality issues beyond the scope of whatever intrigues, real or imagined, he might have gone through.
Does he really have some organically dirven paranoid personality disorder, or is he just a garden variety egotistical asshole who’s been allowed to dial it up to 11 because people who admire his past artistry give him deference, reverence and a powerful benefit of the doubt? Fischer has been a hard nosed jerk practically all his professional life, even when he was quite young. It’s important to remember that for all his finely honed chess brilliance, Fischer was not, and is not, a particularly well educated or sophisticated individual.
I don’t really think he’s “nuts”, he’s just a jerk-savant and he’s been that way practically all his professional life. Now, does that diminish his tactical chess brilliance, the quality of his games, or his legacy as a chess powerhouse? No, it doesn’t, but just because he’s a chess god it doesn’t mean he can’t also be an obnoxious asshole.
I don’t deny that he has personality issues, or even that he is mentally ill. I’m just saying that that is not relevant. I’d rather have one madman pumping out masterpieces than a whole slew of sane people producing drivel.
Sorry, Lib, but this is moronic. It isn’t about the art. It’s about the charges against Mr. Fisher and, to a lesser extent, his character. Art never excuses lack of judgement. Roman Polanski is one of the most talented directors on the planet, but the brilliance of The Pianist has no relevance to the rape charges against him. Likewise, Bobby Fisher’s brilliance at chess has no relevance to the charges against him or to his anti-semitism.
Well, I agree with that as well, Monkey. But don’t you agree that statutory rape is quite a different animal than merely going somewhere that the very center of world corruption —the UN — doesn’t want you to go? What right do magistrates have to say that a man may go here but not there? They are not prosecuting him for raping a young girl; they are prosecuting him for standing on verboten dirt.
Just to clarify here. You want someone locked up for their words. I do not in any way wish to defend the things Bobby Fischer says - but you want to lock someone away FOR THE WORDS THEY SAY. Your country is, I hope, ashamed of you. Unless that country is North Korea. You are a danger to free speech. I might hate what he says, but that does not give me the right to silence him
For the record I do not think he ought be prosecuted in a criminal court, but rather that he needs prompt psychiatric help. I doubt very much, having read some of the things he has said, that he is capable of being held responsible for much of anything he says.
and
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I’m starting to wonder if this whole thing is less about Bobby Fischer and more about a libertarian attempt to get in a dig at the commies.
And that is some fucked-up shit you’re pulling out your ass there.
I just can’t believe your complete willingness to overlook all of Fischer’s extremely disturbing (and disturbed) actions and comments.
I fully concede his right to say what he wants. He is welcome to claim that Jews run the world. As far as i’m concerned, he can freely say “Death to America” or whatever else floats his boat. But, if he does, i reserve the right to call him a paranoid delusional egomaniacal lunatic. That’s free speech in action for ya.
FWIW, i think the extradition is a load of bollocks. I think they should have left him where he was. This whole episode smacks of some DoJ or other government career climber looking to put a big-name notch on the belt. Furthermore, i don’t believe that governments should dictate what countries a person can and cannot travel to. I’ve always felt that about the US policy regarding Cuba, and i feel the same way about any other country.
No, I am saying this:
Violate U.S. economic sanctions + evade taxes + praise 9/11 attacks + years of anti-semitic statements = You should get the book thrown at you; No leniency.
Mhendo, please! I have not overlooked it. I in fact acknowledged his kookiness for an umpteenth time in a post just above yours. But criminey, man. This isn’t Adolf Hitler or Indian Hater Jackson here. This is a man with absolutely zero political clout who happens to be severely disturbed in some particular respect. Let’s keep some perspective. Incidentally, note that Kasparov himself condemned the Soviet machine in his remarks on Fischer.
And I missed this earlier:
Claudia knew (at least substantially) what was in the letter, and Fischer did indeed trust her. But how was he to know that this was not all a calculated and conspiratorial ruse by the USCF to trick him? After all, they had done it before.
What the…? Yeah, trading with other humans, exercising your natural right to consent, speaking your mind… Oh, my God, the nightmare! What are you going to throw, Mao’s Little Red Book?
So I guess all those who might have praised those attacks (that is probably millions of people), who do not pay taxes (most big corporates and many of the super-rich pay a lot less than they ought), who are anti-semitic (remember this includes people who do not like arabs - lots of them here), violate US sanctions (didn’t Jimmy Carter go to Cuba - and people from every nation except this one). All of those people whould have the book thrown at them.
I wonder though if this is selective. How about people who praise the attacks against Iraqis? How about those who make a lot of anti-Islamic statements? How about those corporations I mentioned above. Much as I cringe at the thought of agreeing, Liberal is probably right on this. You want to lock people away for holding a differing opinion.
Trick him into what? Reading an unpleasant letter? Someone you trust says this group is looking to make amends and you refuse to read their missive until they drop ten grand into your bank account?
If he had just said “Get lost, fuckers.” I could respect that. Instead he said “Pay me.” which is rather different. I guess in his mind money=respect but not in mine.
WRT Chunky Bum, I think all he’s saying is that his words suggest he needn’t be afforded any leniency, not that he deserves jail for them
To Lib, mhendo and anyone else who think the Fischer case is a “load of bollocks”. Let’s look at the facts:
Here is a copy of the indictment against Fischer
As the indictment charges that Bobby Fisher: “did knowingly and willfully perform a contract in support of a commercial project in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro), in that the defendant ROBERT JAMES FISCHER did enter into and perform a contract between the defendant, the Jugoskandic Company of Belgrade, Yugoslavia and Boris Spassky to participate in the “World Chess Championship Match” in the Federal Government of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro), for a cash purse of $5 million in United States currency and a percentage of revenues from the commercial gain as a result of the performance of the aforementioned contract.”
Now, what’s the big deal, you say. Here’s some more information:
The letter the Treasury Department sent to him BEFORE the match:
Now, a little more information about the company charged in the indictment, Jugoskandic:
So, unless I’m mixing up Jugoskandic Company and Jugoskandic, it seems that the company that Bobby Fischer supported, with his appearance, was responsible, in a major part, for some very serious atrocities. The company that paid for Fischer’s travel and upkeep, and that paid him his purse, also used their money to spend $7 million Deutschmarks to support paramilitary operations under Milosvic.
Fischer lent his celebrity, fame, and collected his paycheck from a bank fiscally responsible for the genocide of thousands. And he did so AFTER THE GOVERNMENT TOLD HIM NOT TO. All Fischer was interested in was getting his greedy little hands from what was basically a exhibition match on some blood money, and no “sanctions” meant to stop the Milosovic killing machine was going to stop him.
Yeah. And Hitler’s artistic talents as a painter were ignored. And he had a difficult childhood, abandonned by his father, and all…We really should cut him some slack.
A lot of people have to cope with the decisions of their myopic manager, or are disrespect at the moment they need support the most. What does make Fisher a special case?
You can argue as much you want about whether or not people should be prosecuted for doing business in a country under sanctions, but the law should apply equally to all. If the law is good enough for your average joe, it’s good enough for Fisher.
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But for a bit of insight and the teeniest smidgin of vision 30 years ago, we would have more of his breathtaking masterpieces to enjoy.
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A “bit” of insight, from your own admission in the parallel thread in GD would be to cave in any of his demands, regardless of how ludicrous they are, ranging from changing the rules of the world championship just because he says so to massage his feets. You might be willing to become the slave of a lunatic because he happens to be a good “command and conquer” player if you wants to, but expecting that anybody else will be ready to do the same is just ludicrous.
Absolutely not. People deserve my admiration on the basis of their human and moral qualities. And still, I wouldn’t lick their boots. And the kind of people I could admire wouldn’t ask me to, anyway. At best, Fisher would deserve my commiseration for being so mentally disturbed.
If you want to cut some slack to Fisher, then do the same for everybody else. The best chess player doens’t deserve to be cut more slack than the best carp fisher (or the worst, for that matter). At the contrary. Someone who is famous enough for his statements to be widely reported bear more responsability than a random blue collar, and should be cut less slack than him.
Yes, sure. Asking 10 000 $ for opening a letter or broadcasting hate speech is “just about the art”.
Well…nope…It’s just about being a jerk (and “jerk” is a vast understatement).
Of course it is somewhat selective. But it wasn’t because of Fischer’s Anti-Semitism, rabid hatred, and paranoia, it was because it was a huge event. I can see the government overlooking a box of Cuban cigars smuggled in a suitcase, but when we’re talking about a guy chasing a $3.35 million dollar purse with the worldwide press and huge publicity, they tend to take it seriously. Seriously enough to send a letter, before he goes, to the idiot saying: DON’T DO THIS!!! Fischer takes the letter, spits on it, and defies the government to do anything about it. Of course the government is going to be enforcing a law when they told him not to do it before hand and he spits on them. Bobby Fischer is only now reaping what he sowed.
Due respect, Hamlet, but bullshit. What ethical principle authorizes the “Office of Foreign Assets Control” to tell men with whom they may trade? And what evidence have you shown that Fischer knew anything about subsidizing any atrocities? Do you think Spassky knew as well? He did not lend his celebrity for any such reified purpose. He just played chess, won his prize, and went on his way. If it should be discovered that something you have done found its way to subsidizing Bush’s invasion of Iraq, should you be hauled into Amsterdam and brought up on charges?