In point of fact, we — an ungrateful and undeserving people — are reaping what he sowed. He has left us treasures of the heart and mind that no one can ever reproduce. It is like waking from a lovely dream, only to find Dr. Mengele hovering over you with a syringe. Institutional thugs will now take him away, like crazed looters pillaging a museum. We are all reminded that, in the end, we are slaves owned by our magistrates. The great player never knew that, all along, he was the pawn.
With all due respect, Lib, blow it out your ass. I get the whole libertarian “you can’t tell me who I can trade with or not” crap, and I ain’t buying it. If you believe Bobby Fischer went to Yugoslavia to strike a blow for the libertarian movement, you’re mistaken. He wanted the money. He didn’t care where it came from, or who he was supporting by his appearance, he just wanted the paycheck. The United States government, in an attempt to stop the economic viability of a regime bent on the complete annihilation of an ethnic group, instituted economic sanctions against Yugoslavia and Montenegro. If you have trouble with the “ethical principle” which would stand for the proposition that people should not support, financially or with advertising, genocide, well, I really can’t help you. Fisher knew the sanctions were in place, was told over and over not to go, and still didn’t care. Do you honestly believe he gave two shits about the fact the company supporting the chess match was also supporting genocide? Feh. He went there, after being told the legal and ethical reasons not to go, and now he has to deal with the repurcussions of his selfish, destructive act.
Is this maudlin, overwrought, and horribly pretensous crap supposed to excuse Bobby Fischer? Somehow, I think you and Bobby may have a bit more in common that just chess.
The irony of referring to the blatantly anti-Semitic Fischer’s alleged “oppressors” as Nazis leaves me speechless.
Goddamn, Lib, give this thing a rest. Fischer knowingly contravened the law by playing in Yugoslavia counter to sanctions–indeed, literally spitting on the order for him not to play. Whether the sanctions were justified or not (and having known people who had dealings with the Serbian government of the day, it’s clear in my mind they were), it is hardly a surprise that he is now paying for it.
Jesus, Liberal. Bobby Fischer was a chess player, nothing more. A great one, yes, but that hardly makes him any more meaningful than a baseball player or an actor. He does not deserve extra leniency from the laws.
And you also continually refuse to address why it is okay for Fischer to demand changes to the rules, or he won’t play, but not for his opponents to demand that the rules stay the same as they were when Fischer won his title, or they won’t play.
What makes him worthy of such deference? Should the reigning world chess champion always be able to dictate the terms of when he deigns to play again, or how he can be deposed?
The guy sounds like an asshole, and assholes deserve no deference, regardless of whatever talents they may possess. Being good at chess does not make being an asshole okay.
This has to be the most absurd case of hero-worship I’ve ever seen.
Please do not smear His name by comparing him to me. I am a wad of gum on the heel of his shoe.
I don’t really have a dog in this race but after reading what Fischer has said and done over the years- he is a jerk. He comes across as no different than any professional athlete or entertainer who thinks that their talent absolves them from following some or all the rules that rest of us are forced to adhere to.
Who cares that Lawrence Phillips physicallly abused women while he was in college? He was a great running back.
Who cares that Bobby Fischer violated international sanctions and an executive order? He is/ was a chess grand master.
If it’s any consolation I can think of one catergory in which you may well exceed Bobby Fisher.
I believe I have addressed that in one or the other thread. In the event that I missed something, you will kindly grant that the man at the bottom of the pile has a bit less elbow room than all the others. I think that I explained that the rules that he proposed (which the USCF had promised to support) elevated the game. They elminated rewarding boring-ass draws. They made the match quicker and more amenable to coverage by Western media. Nothing was any more easy on the champion than before. If anything, it would be harder on the champion. Before, the champion could play for draws and still win the match. But not with the Fischer rules.
A great running back?! Sir or madam, you are comparing Moms Mabley to Leontyne Price.
Liberal - would you play him?
Liberal you really need to read The Professor and the Madman. The parallel is uncanny. What I don’t understand is this blind worship of his art at any cost. I love chess. I’m by no means a great player, but I’ve beaten a few amateur tournament people in friendly games. I only say that so you can realize that I appreciate the game. I also idolized the ability of Fischer to play. But to say he’s a great man, and we’re all at a major loss not having him, is hard to swallow. Any rational (American) being, when given a direct order from the US Government, would at least maybe investigate the WHY behind the order.
Fischer: “Hmmm, we have sanctions against Yugoslavia, and the government is so serious about these sanctions that they don’t want me to go there and contribute to their earnings… bah, must be a conspiracy against my rights. I’m right about everything else, so I must be right here.” The world isn’t so cut and dry as the excuses your wit can come up with off the top of your head. I know you recognize he’s crazy, and you claim it boils down to “love of art.” But your want to give a madman free reign just so you, and the other very small community of chess lovers, can have your hero isn’t how rational society’s work. And seriously, I thank Carbona not glue for pointing out that saying “Death to the US” is not a crime ( My knee jerk was to say hang the bastard, too, after I read the 9/11 comments). Let’s stick to the facts. Tax evasion, and contributing to a country under sanctions is. He’s no more special on that front than anyone else. If Kobe is guilty, I want him in jail, no matter what his potential contributions to the NBA might be. Polanski? Jail. Looove good, thinking movies. But not at the cost of little girls’ virginity. I’m not saying you should recant on your views of what he’s done for the game, but you should rethink you idea of “I don’t care what he’s done, let him play chess no matter what so we can further the game.” That seems to be your stance, but when asked about it, you water down all of the charges against him, and make it look like it’s a moot point.
On preview, I’m noticing a lot of people constantly saying he’s an “asshole” or “jerk” etc. I think that those are just side effects of his illness. IANA psychiatrist, but I have no doubt that he’s a paranoid schitzophrenic. The demand for more money wasn’t ego in the sense that he wanted 5 million in his bank account (like a rock star, or athelete) so he could point to it later and say "look how much I’m worth. He could only feel self worth by bossing people in authority around to make them do things they otherwise wouldn’t do. I suspect the rule changes would have been, in part, inspired by this. I also suspect that flipping off the US Gov’t. might have been the same loathing of authority, and as I said, he wasn’t rational enough to look at the long term affects of playing in Yugoslavia.
Other than that Fischer’s style of play was “result-oriented,” while Spassky and his Russian contemporaries typically played for draws…why, I can’t see any reason that Fischer would have wanted to put more weight on draws!
Bottom line is: if it’s FIDE’s championship, it’s FIDE, not Fischer, that gets to set the rules. Champion boxers or even checkers players do not get to determine the rules of their title defenses. If Fischer wanted to set up a “Fischer World Championship” with his own rules, by all means he was allowed to do so. But he was not in charge of FIDE, so FIDE got to determine the rules of the championship. Fischer did not want to play by those rules, so FIDE stripped him of the title. And that’s the whole story.
My heart skipped a beat when I saw your question. I don’t know that I could fulfull the task. I don’t know that I could take my eyes off him as my trembling hand groped for the pieces. I would not want even to blink for fear that a moment of time might pass. The honor is too inconceivable.
AAARRGH—“more weight on wins.”
I did not say that he is a great man. I said that he is a flawed man. I said that he is a great player. I said that his art is great.
Yes, we all know the bottom line. And it is bright red. Incidentally, I don’t hear anyone blasting Kasparov for leaving FIDE to form his own organization.
You know what? It’s funny, I was thinking you’d jump at the opportunity. I obviously have no idea what you look like, but I can picture a figure across a mahogany table, watching Bobby as he sits cross legged, hand on chin and mouth…as he contemplates his next move. In my mind you are actually quite calm. Furthermore, I’d love to be a fly on the wall to hear the conversation between Lib and Fischer.
I think that’s kind of the point. Kasparov isn’t trying to impose his will.
And I know you didn’t say the words “he’s a great man”, but your tone does suggest you think he is.
Wow, that is pretty pathetic. Hero worship is not flattering.
Look at it this way, you can go visit him in Federal prison now. I’m sure orange is the in color for off-beat crackpots these days.
You’ve spent half this thread arguing about what a chess purist Fischer was, but it seems to me the above criterion hardly qualifies. Adapting chess to make it “more amenable to coverage by Western media” would, it seems to me, remove much of the strategy and patience that purists love so much about the game.
Next you’ll be proposing that the world championship be decided by one of those ten-minute, slam-the-clock games that are so popular at some suburban chess clubs.
Of course not. Like I said in my post, Fischer was free to leave FIDE to form his own organization, too. But if he wanted to win the FIDE championship, he had to play by FIDE’s rules. To try to have it both ways was petulant in the extreme.