I’m not Phil Heath, I’m a 49-year-old computer guy who works out some. No steroids, no supplements beyond the basic whey protein shake. I just lift some weights, do some cardio and call it a day.
So I’m basically a burly guy with wide shoulders and big arms. I’d like to be a *lean *guy with wide shoulders and big arms. Not a competition bodybuilder, just the guy in an “after” photo. I know that there are people who manage to build lean muscle (or build fat muscle and then become leaner).
I’ve never actually taken care of what I eat, planning my protein and carb intake and all that. And I have no idea which supplements are effective, which are woo and which are andro in disguise.
Oh, and I hate taking advice from people. I mean in person. I’d rather not sit down with a nutritionist or trainer and discuss this. I’m sure I can just absorb this information rationally as I do with other subjects, and then it becomes a question of putting it into use.
I know that there’s a whole sea of information on bodybuilding nutrition and supplementation out there. Way too much information, in fact, lots of it with the aim of selling supplements, and lots of it targeting teenagers with no qualms about tweaking their hormones. And much of it contradictory.
So, what’s a good source of information on nutrition and supplementation for natural bodybuilding? Which books, which sites?
If you are a burly guy, you don’t need any nutrition advice, other than: cut calorie intake and do more cardio. If you do that, and still lift, you will naturally lean out, and keep much of your lean muscle mass. Keep your protein the same, and cut carbs.
Ambivalid competes - you might want to PM him if he doesn’t stumble upon this thread.
Almost all supplementation, with the exception of creatine, is woo, and nothing you can buy OTC will affect your hormone levels. The testosterone boosters being peddled have no effect on testosterone levels - if they did, they would be subject to FDA scrutiny.
If you want to maintain muscle and lose fat, do circuit training. That’s when you do a lighter set with about 60% of your 1RM, then immediately do a set for a different muscle group with minimal rest (10-20 seconds, max), then another set for another group, and continue until you have hit all the major groups, and then repeat the cycle without rest for 20-30 minutes. Don’t go to failure, or even close to failure, on any set - the idea is to boost your heart rate and burn off fat.
You can do your whole body three times a week, or do a standard legs-push-pull split (that is, legs, then chest, shoulders and triceps, then back and biceps - throw in 2-3 ab sessions per week). Spot reducing fat is not possible, so don’t think that you will burn off fat by working any particular body part more to reduce fat in that area. It doesn’t work. Wherever you are genetically programmed to gain fat first, you lose it last - for men, this is generally the waist, while for women it is the thighs and butt.
Reduce your caloric intake by 100-200 calories per day below maintenance - not more, and be sure to drink a lot of fluids. Ideally you will not lose a lot of weight - you want to maintain or increase muscle mass while reducing fat mass.
The slower you lose it, the longer you keep it off, and circuit training helps you not to lose muscle as you lose fat.
You can toss creatine on the same pile of woo with the rest of the exercise supplements on the marked.
Circuit training is great. Especially when done as described above, i.e. HIIT. But if you’re not working out to failure, you’re not getting the most out of your time in the gym. Particularly if your goal is to burn body fat and increase lean muscle mass.
It has been my experience that Creatine is the only supplement to improve my performance in any noticeable manner. I don’t use it often, but when I do a cycle of just plain old creatine monohydrate I can definitely lift heavier and with more reps.
Um, there are literally hundreds of studies showing benefits to creatine supplementation. It increases power output and it’s cheap, safe, and effective.
This sort of response shows why you have to be skeptical of advice you see here, particularly when it comes to fitness and nutrition. People that don’t even know the basics present themselves as experts.
Half the creatin people ingest is not processed and simply eliminated. People with kidney or liver issues should not use creatin, so check with your doctor before using.
But more importantly, most people don’t work out that hard and so the benefits are marginal at best. Develop better eating and exercise habits, get enough rest/sleep. And if you find that doesn’t help you achieve your goals, consider supplements like creatin.
The average person trying to lose weight (per OP) is not going to magically drop a bunch of weight because just he/she starts taking creatin.
Losing weight is REALLY fucking hard and people shouldn’t be fooled into thinking supplements will help.
You really just need to track your “macros” (Carbs/Fat/Protein). It is not the most fun thing to do in the world ever. Once you do it for a while though it’s not so bad. Prepare to get tired of eating chicken, though.
Get this book. It’s pretty cheap. Cites loads of studies. Has enough info in the nutrition chapters to get you going.
I appreciate the general and specific advice received so far, and I will at least start tracking my calories.
I hope we don’t get a spellcheck error turning “creatine” into “cretin”: it could get ugly.
This creatine debate is but a small sample of the contradictions out there, which I’ve always found discouraging.
Hence my goal to get recommendations for credible sources of information (the “advice-advice” in the title). In other words: who can I trust? Which author? Which guru?
Creatine is not a weight loss supplement, it is a primarily a supplement used to become stronger. Someone using creatine in order to lose weight would be misusing it. And whether it’s weight loss or muscle gain, supplements absolutely can help. Key word is “help”. You have to educate yourself as to which supplements are good and which ones are snake oil, as well as have a realistic notion of how much help they can offer.
While many, many substances/foods/supplements in fitness/nutrition circles are subject to contentious debate, creatine is simply not one of them. For most people, it works. Plain and simple.
Just to emphasize your point - for certain values of “works.”
For people actually putting maximal efforts into their work outs creatine can help that maximal effort be a bit higher and thus result in greater adaptations by some marginal amount.
Those marginal amounts are definitely statistically significant. Are they practically significant? That’s a matter of judgement.
The op is looking to lose fat mass while at least preserving muscle mass as best as possible, if not adding some. The without debate most significant aspect of that is keeping up with some system of progressive resistance training to near failure with adequate rest between sessions, sure cardio, adequate protein (no need to be crazy about it), and a slight but long term calorie deficit. In comparison the rest is not of much matter. Supplements might “help” but worth the bother? To some but to someone just wanting to become a bit leaner? Probably not.
For the nothing it is worth, not to the likes of me. It just has not been studied long term (12 to 16 weeks is “long term” in its literature), may actually increase BP slightly (which matters to me as a proxy of long term significance), and I have no huge need max out. Eating an overall healthy diet and exercising in a varied fashion meets all my goals just fine. But that’s just me.
Nothing though that adds up to any significant shortcut.
Again, this is incorrect. Working out to muscle failure is not something that should be done more than occasionally, if ever. For one thing, risk of injury increases when you work out until muscle failure. Two, it’s simply not necessary for fitness gains (whether they be muscle mass gains or weight loss).
I just today read about a long term study that followed a group of creatine users who took 30 grams/day of creatine for 5 years. No health risks were shown for otherwise healthy adults. Im on my phone now but when I get home ill post a link to it. (Btw, I fully agree that creatine wouldn’t be too helpful for someone just trying to lose weight or get leaner).
This is exactly right. I should probably be emphasizing the “realistic expectations” aspect of supplement use more. Supplements aren’t like steroids (despite what the supplement makers might proclaim via advertisements). Any gains/benefits one might get from supplement use will be relatively marginal. But, given the lack of negative side effects in creatine, why not give it a try? If it helps you, great, you’ve found a cheap, safe supplement to aid you in reaching your fitness goals. If it doesn’t help, ehh, what have you lost by trying it? A few bucks.
This onemaybe? Roughly half of only 23 young adult football players with just some very basic kidney and liver function tests done? Not blood pressure, not microalbuminuria, not really very much at all?
Not very reassuring. To be sure no evidence of harm but not much to claim evidence of lack of long term harm to my read. Is that good enough? Not for me to use it.
Depends on what your fitness goals are, of course. This is one where individual mileage does vary. In my case I’ve spent a fair amount of mental energy defining what my fitness goals are, and I am hitting them exactly how I want to so far without any supplements. (Happy to bore people with them upon request.) As a matter of philosophical inclination and intellectual bias I have a preference for real foods as my nutrition and for now I am unconvinced that there is convincing evidence of no harms with long term use and the potential gains seem inconsequential to my long term goals.
No question others will decide otherwise: no evidence of long term harm so far and evidence of slight benefit is enough for them. That is fair too.
I keep forgetting the importance of precise language when posting on SDMB.
Working out to failure in some exercise routines/muscle groups and not others is probably the more accurate statement I should have made.
For me, body weight exercises like pull-ups, dips, hanging abs/core are always most effective when I go to failure on every set. Near failure on push-ups, floor core, certain free weight exercises for shoulders and arms. A satisfying burn and elevated heart-rate on plyometrics is enough for me. I cycle for leg specific workouts.
I study and focus on good form to minimize risk of injury. And sure, some exercises and workouts are less intense because I’m mostly focused on maintenance now.
As DSeid wisely pointed out, it’s a matter of goals and what you find works for you. For me, I’m getting to the point of saying, fuck those extra 5-10lbs. Sometimes I feel like I’m almost too old for this shit anymore.
This is also terrible advice. Why should the OP keep his protein intake the same when, by his own admission, he’s “never actually taken care of” what he eats?
Eating more protein will 1) prevent your body from catabolizing your muscle mass as you diet, 2) help maximize your muscle gains during your workouts, 3) reduce hunger (protein helps with satiety), and 4) burns calories (protein has a high thermic effect, thereby offsetting some of its calories).
Aim for around 1.5 grams of protein intake per kilogram of body weight per day.
No, it’s excellent advice.
The OP is, by his own admission, muscular. He just wants to get more cut. There is no need for him to increase his protein intake in order to add muscle mass - he just needs to cut calories and increase cardio to lean out.
I mean in person. I’d rather not sit down with a nutritionist or trainer and discuss this. I’m sure I can just absorb this information rationally as I do with other subjects, and then it becomes a question of putting it into use.
