Certainly it isn’t the whole story, but there were still 19 games a year in which Ruth could face St. Louis Browns pitching while any good Browns player had to face Yankees’ pitching. 19 more against the Washington Senators. 19 more against the Cleveland Indians’ pitching. It did add up to something significant.
Your other points, about it being almost useless to try to compare performances from different eras, is right on. The issue today is to decide how much of a steroid discount Bonds’ performances should be given to compare him to his contemporaries. If you think that almost all the top hitters have been juiced lately, you don’t even have to do that. I didn’t think they were until Palmeiro, who has never looked anything like a juicer, tested dirty. But maybe they are.
In a tepid defense of Giambi, he’s the only current player I know of who has admitted to (past?) use. He probably can’t take a whizz any more without someone collecting and testing it. Not that it matters - as I understand it, there are enough undetectable steroids out there that no one has to stop using.
Giambi did apologize to the NY fans in a press conference, but wouldn’t say for what. He did attribute his recent weight loss, not to cleaning up, but to an “intestinal parasite”, though. :rolleyes:
Or maybe you meant *Jeremy * Giambi? I believe he *did * admit it, not that steroids helped his career much.
I think those events actually occurred in reverse order. The excuse was ridiculous (and he didn’t even admit to the weight loss right away; when he showed up at training camp looking thinner, he said he’d only lost four pounds), but while he wouldn’t say why he was apologizing about :p, probably for legal reasons, he at least showed some forthrightness in his cowardice by saying he was sorry.
Because every accomplishment is suspect. I suppose if it can be proven that one achieved Hall-worthy levels of excellence prior to juicing, a difficult case could be made. Presently the big hitters look like a collection of pathological liars who do their utmost to conceal their violations, so it’s not clear to me how we could, if we proved steroid use in the present, establish the validity of past performance. Seems justifiable to me to summarily exclude the player who we know juices from inclusion, and put the onus on them to exonorate their past selves if they feel steroids weren’t responsible. I’m not one to cut these guys much slack if they get legitimately nailed.
I feel the same way. Besides, it was written by SF Chronicle writers–why couldn’t they have put it all in their newspaper, to which they had daily writing access? I have an idea why: it wouldn’tve all passed the fact-checkers.
Maybe he doesn’t want to make himself look worse than he already does. Granted, we’re not talking about the most media-savvy man in the game, but the stupidity has to end somewhere.
No and no. You’ve got to stop seeing this in B&W, man.
It is, though. I’m not rationalizing anything, but I can tell you that I’ve sampled a wide variety of illegal drugs, including most of the different amphetamines that have been in any significant use recently, and steroids really aren’t like any of them in any way, from the time/dose structure to its effects to its pharmacological methodology to the method of administration to its side effects to its withdrawal symptoms.
The problem from a pragmatic standpoint is that so many players have juiced up in this decade and the last–including probably the majority of the power hitters that would have been HOF material anyway–that you’d basically be excluding an entire generation of All-Star hitters from consideration.
The writers and HOF players that vote on the inductees will have to make choices based on informed opinion.
This is where many will say, Big Mac always cheated and only is a candidate for Home Run hitting.
Bonds, probably did not juice up until '99 and was already a great all a round player and if he retired in 99 instead, would probably have been voted in.
Alex Rodriguez: Probably never juiced, though tainted by the era, vote him in when it is time.
Pudge Rodriguez or Mike Piazza: A little more suspicious but only enough lose a few votes.
Palmiero: Proven cheat and idiot. Will lose a lot of votes.
Sosa: nothing proven, some credible doubt, might keep enough votes.
Frank Thomas: is he a HOF? Do I think he cheated? Maybe and probably not. In a weak year, I vote for him.
etc.
This is what bothers me about the doping scandals. The papers out a few and act like it is a somewhat isolated problem. However, player tell-alls talk about how pervasive the problem is. Personally, I think we would be very, very surprised at some names that would show up if baseball (or any other sport) learned how to spot every substance accurately. I think a lot of unlikely names would end up on the list. Not every user is going for the big-bodied power hitter end result. Track stars juice up, and they are among the last people who need to bulk up.
I’m not accusing A-Rod, Piazza, Pudge nor any other player of anything. My point is that we, the fans, really don’t know how pervasive doping is in professional sports.
What Exit? - Pudge is going to be under some suspicion for being named in Canseco’s book and for “suspiciously” losing weight a year or two ago. I don’t think anyone has ever specifically accused Piazza of anything, and he was consistently excellent - no Brady Anderson years for him. And Frank Thomas only in a weak year? I’m pretty sure that guy is in.
I was trying to make some examples. Piazza was drafted as a favor and turned into the all time Home run hitting catcher. There will be a little suspicion and as I said not much.
Pudge was named and had a slightly suspicious weight loss after mandatory testing went into effect. Again, I don’t think he will lose many votes.
Frank Thomas, I will concede, I think he is going in, I was trying to illustrate how I think the voters will judge the players of the steroid era.
Sorry for not clarifying that.
Seconded, I don’t follow baseball, and really don’t care about it. Unfortunatly I have heard something about this non-importaint event, and it was that his use of steriods negates his record breaking, I didn’t even know what color he is before your post.
