Boogie

Thank you so much for the etymology of bugger and bogeyman.
May I put my 5 cents in too?
Nearly all the terms for music that came out of the black community mean originally the same thing.
Jazz, Rock’N’Roll, Twist, Funk, and a few others.
They are all slang for, you guessed, SEX.
And Boogie Woogie sounds much too nice and enticing to mean much else.
Of course this is a long way from Bulgaria.

Thanks for that, flycow. I found this page supports what you say. Interesting that they note that the apparently first published use of “jazz” was as part of the name of a band of “seven boys, aged twelve to fifteen, who first appeared in New Orleans about 1895”.

More than interesting. The memories of someone, published in 1938 can hardly be considered reliable. I’ll run this one by the American Dialect Society.

The first published use of the word “jazz” or any alternate spelling–jass, jasz, etc. was in 1913. Period. End of story. No one has found an earlier cite.

And, that 1913 use was for a baseball term–“jazz curve.”

That site is full of speculation and misinformation.

Pardon me for not agreeing.
Check this take on the etymolgy of Jazz:
http://www.bobrigter.com/etymologyjazz.htm
He mentions the OED: The entries in the 1976 supplement are illustrated with quotations dating from 1909 to 1974, A pity he doesn’t give a link though.
If his etymology is correct, we would have to agree on the point when chasse became jass or jazz.

Here is a quote from the Online etymological dictionary:
http://www.etymonline.com/j1etym.htm

jazz - 1909, Amer.Eng., first recorded in lyrics of song “Uncle Josh in Society,” where it apparently refers to a style of ragtime dancing; as a type of music (originally to accompany the dance), attested from 1913. Probably ult. from Creole patois jass “strenuous activity,” especially “sexual intercourse” but also used of Congo dances, from jasm (1860) “energy, drive,” of African origin (cf. Mandingo jasi, Temne yas), also the source of slang jism.
Room for endless nitpicking and pityful arguments. Hooray.

And here, to top things up is

http://www.tcnj.edu/~kpearson/syllabi/jazz.html

with the following:

jazz (‘jaz) orig. U.S. slang. Also jas, jascz, jass, jasz, jaz. [origin unknown: while there is suggested derivations]

*1825[from crowd chants to a New Orleans dancing slave, Jasper. “Come on Jass!” or a black musician named Jazbo Brown with a similar chant.] 1860[from jass, jasm, or gism-slang expressions for speed and energy in athletic pursuits, and dance; probably in sexual contexts as well] 1895[from Mississippi Ragtime drummer, Charles or Chaz Washington]1904

[from a New Orleans band conductor Mr. Razz] 1905[a mispronunciation of Razz, a New Orleans Negro band]1910[from Charles or Chas Alexander’s Ragtime band] [from chasse dance step][from the Arab, jazib, meaning; one who allures] [from the African, jazia, meaning; the sound of distant drums] [from African, tshiluba jaja, meaning; to cause to dance, or Mandingo jasi and Wolof yees, meaning; to step out of character][from African ,Tenne yas, meaning to be extremely lively or energetic] [from Hindu, jasba, meaning; ardent desire] [from French, jaser, meaning; to pep up] slang phonology- words that end in /z/ have been representative for slang. Examples include fuzz= police, razz= heckle, jazz= hot music.

Now go and take your pick.

Actually, I think the thread was supposed to be about boogie…oh, my. Lordie, Lord.

I did say “apparently”, samclem. How about the general theme of the site that such musical terms as “jazz” stem from sexual allusions? Is that correct or not?

(And I noted the “apparent” first publication, because the page talked of terms stemming from sex, yet gave an example of a band of young boys acquiring the word as part of their band title – slightly bizarre.)

As Merriam-Webster gives it an “unknown” etymology, I’d say speculation on the origins of jazz was still continuing.

Unfortunately for all concerned, the 1909 cite is not accurate. The OED now admits this. The song is actually from 1919. Mistakes happen.

If you can give me a print cite for any use before 1913, I’ll defend you to the end. Until then, speculation from websites is baseless.

This leaves no room for pityful arguments. Back to you, flycow.

Ice Wolf. I certainly won’t argue about the sexual nature of many early musical terms. Good possiblility. And the search for early cites continues as we speak. I found a 1916 cite for “jass music” in Sheboygan, WI just today using a digitized database of newspapers. This doesn’t pre-date known cites, but it shows that the music was in varied places by that date.

The current speculation is that the music we know as jazz originated in New Orleans or Chicago, certainly before 1916. But not likely before 1905 or so. The 1905 speculation is purely mine.

And I know, the OP was about boogie-woogie.

I’ll try to address that the next few days.

This post is poorly founded, and I apologize. A few years ago, in a Toastmasters speech, a friend of mine mentioned a glossary of Swahili words. His favorite was “m’bugi-m’bugi,” (with a hard g) which he said was “the need to dance.” I have spelled it from the sound; I did not see it in print. I once ran it through Babelfish, to no avail.

That’s my scrap-of-a-map.

Eh, I have to say it sounds like a Toastmasters one-liner to me.

The Internet Swahili Dictionary gives three different verbs for “dance” as a verb:

-charaza.
-cheza densi.
-tamba.

And there’s nothing in the “phrases about dancing” that matches either “the need to dance” or “mbugi-mbugi”.

Toastmasters. I’d bet on it.

“Mbugi” is defined as “small bells (fastened to child’s leg for watch).”

Completely off-thread, but I had to tell this story of my dad’s:

Sometime around 1940 he was working with inner-city kids in Philadelphia. Two small boys, one black and one white, were sitting on the curb. The white boy picked a huge gooey glob out of his nose and said, “Look at that booger!”
“Them’s not boogers, them’s G-men,” replied the black boy.