BORAT: Cohen is an ass who should be subjected to Third World Justice: yes or no?

I just watched the DVD of Borat- I did not see it in the theaters. There are other Borat threads but since they’re months old and this involves some DVD extras I’ll start this one rather than bump the old one.

In fairness, I thought this movie was absolutely hysterical in several places, but I also thought it was one of the rudest and crudest things I’d ever seen. The nude wrestling scene- especially when Borat’s face is covered by probably the ugliest nastiest naked ass ever to appear on screen- was one of the most disgusting scenes in a non-porn ever filmed, BUT it was filmed with two consenting actors. If SBC’s willing to stick his face in a huge hairy ass, it’s his right.

HOWEVER, their (very real) disruption of a banking convention was one of the movie’s many moments that made me think “What total assholes! Do you know how nervous many people already are when addressing a large convention and you’ve just done that to totally disrupt nerves and the point of the convention?” He owed a major apology and monetary damages for disrupting the conference, imo.

The incident at the dining club was one of the most repulsive things I’ve ever seen on camera. Now, I’m an Alabamian of course, but that has little to do with it- the sector of Southern society that hosts visiting foreign filmmakers in rented mansions isn’t a circle I swing in. BUT- if this had been filmed in NYC I’d have been no less appalled. They start by showing the sign to “Secession Drive” to get you all geared up- these are racist Southerners! But- that mansion was nowhere near Secession Drive, Birmingham is in fact a postbellum city (it was built almost from the ground up after the Civil War as a steel producing/coal mining city) and that was one of the least settled and least active parts of the state during the Civil War (in fact north Alabama fielded a Union regiment). Still, if it had been filmed in downtown Montgomery at the White House of the Confederacy at a dinner honoring Jefferson Davis’s birthday it would have not excused his actions.

What infuriated me in reading reviews was the “taken for granted” notion that a “Southern preacher left the dinner when a black woman entered”. The fact that said “black lady” was an obese midriff baring hooker at a party where a guest had just insulted the minister’s wife AND brought feces to the table was unimportant. (I know next to nothing of Kazakhstan- I know generally where it is and that the people are Eurasian- but I know that there’s no way any person from any country who has been in America for even a few days could be so socially inept and ignorant as to think feces at a dinner table was acceptable, so you know then and there that either this is some sort of sick joke or the man is insane or that he’s trying to pull something, and leaving is a good idea. Personally I’d have applauded if he had thrown a chair at the evil bastard.

There is a big gap in that dinner scene- Allred’s apologetic one moment and livid the next- and the missing time is not included on the movie’s extra’s. A pity, because what actress Luenell (the hooker) said in a TV interview made my respect for the etiquette instructor shoot through the roof. Luenell said that the only thing she felt bad about was the embarrassment caused Gloria Allred BECAUSE while furiously throwing out Borat and calling the cops, she was equally loudly insisting that Borat pay Luenell whatever she was owed before he was arrested or left because she (Luenell) had been inconvenienced and had been promised money. (Luenell also improvisationally played this up in a “Gimme my money!” rant that was deleted.) So… a white Southern country-club set etiquette coach (can you get much more magnolia-effete) having been dealt the worst of personal insults and mortally embarrassed in front of her guests- nevertheless defends the rights of a fat ugly middle aged black hooker- gee, you sure don’t want to show that in the movie because it might give people the wrong impression (kind of like the Secession Drive sign).

I had a visceral dislike of the homophobic rodeo manager and the politically incorrect fratboys, and while they knew they were on camera, THEY WERE ON CAMERA UNDER COMPLETELY FALSE PRETENSES AND WERE ACTUALLY BEING NICE TO A STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND. Plus, more than the embarassment aspects to these people was the sheer cheap bastardy: these people were paid a few hundred dollars each to appear in what the contract of release fraudulently calls a documentary style film and were completely unaware that it was in fact a $20 million production that would be released for profit and net Cohen and its distributors $10 millions in profit. That is NOT fair to the participants who should have been far better reimbursed, but none of whom should be faulted for not being experts on British pop-culture personalities (how many Brits would know who Jay Leno or Larry the Cable Guy are? And for those who don’t, does it mean they’re provincial or idiotic) or for trusting the document they signed to be true. (How often in the average life do you have to sign a release for a foreign “documentary style” filmmaker?

He caused enormous humiliation to many people from the people he sexually harassed with his and Davitian’s nudity in the elevators to the masseur (in the deleted scenes) who in crawled on top of while he (Borat) was naked, repeatedly shoved his ass in the face of, and requested several times to go inside of his “ah-noos” or give him a hand job. He caused great awkwardness wherever he went to completely innocent and trusting people, the news producer who believed him because she had no reason not to lost her job over his antics (and to the best of my knowledge has not been reimbursed), and generally made fools of people who, however much I may disagree with their views, had done him no wrong, or the loan officer and grocery store employee on the extras who also had to take time out of their real jobs to be humiliated for false pretenses. The police were called 91 times- that means 91 complete wastes of time and city resources that whether it did or not COULD HAVE delayed their response times to real emergencies. Then there are the Romanians who thought it was a documentary on their poverty who were paid a few dollars per day to be laughing stocks, and I won’t even go into the whole Kazakhstan controversy.

In fairness again, I laughed several times at this movie. Cohen really is a comic genius in characterization, though I disagree with his comparison of himself to Peter Sellers- Sellers was a total asshole on the set but he didn’t go out of his way to humiliate non show biz folk on camera for peanuts. In his interactions with non-actors he was far more Tom Green or Steve-O than Sellers and far more obnoxious than the rodeo promoter or the frat boys or the gun seller.

In my opinion.

Yours?

First I will say I think SBC is the funniest man on the planet. Literally.

But in fairnesss I will say all of your points are valid, that while in some scenes he did give people who deserve it their comeuppance, if you will, but in other scenes people were painted to be asses or otherwise made fools of who did not necessarily deserve it.

I didn’t laugh once. I sat there in stony silence, embarrassed for everyone he encountered and very uncomfortable throughout the whole thing. I don’t find making fun of people as a source of humor funny (don’t like Letterman or Howard Stern for much the same reason) and it was painful for me. That my friends thought it was hilarious was no help.

I don’t know where I ultimately come down on this movie - other than the fact that some parts were very funny and the wrestling was horrfiying - but you did a very good job of articulating the side of it that bothered me. Some of the people Borat harassed deserved it, others were just there and weren’t guilty of anything other than humoring him. Does it reveal something about them that they think foreigners really act like this? Sure. But it’s not like they were asked to describe foreigners and revealed some prejudice. They were presented with this outrageous person, and maybe they should have realized they were being put on, but I think most people just don’t think that way. That’s not wrong.

Disrupting the bank conference doesn’t bother me. The editing of the dinner scene is troublesome, however. I think other people had said something was obviously weird there because of the way the host’s mood changes.

I’ve laughed several times at ALI-G show segments (particularly Gore Vidal rapping in an interview where Ali-G “mistakes” him for Vidal Sassoon and asks him questions about hairdressing). BUT, there’s a difference in lampooning a public figure and a private person. (Vidal says he figured out instantly the show was a hoax- it would be hard not to- but he played along; he’s also done guest voices on The Simpsons and Family Guy in the past year so apparently he’s really anxious to become a media personality one more time.)

The most wince-inducing scene was when he was in the antique store and was falling all over the place breaking stuff. I don’t know if it was staged or not, but watching it was stressful and not in a good way. I had to look away.

The lady at the dinner and the etiquette teacher were two different people. Neither one of them was Gloria Allred. Cohen (as Borat) went to the etiquette coach before he went to the dinner party. The etiquette coach has reportedly now hired Allred as her attorney because she feels scandalized about being tricked into appearing in an R-rated movie. Total money grab.

I think the dinner party scene might have been a little unfair too, but nobody died. I really don’t care that some convention people had to see a naked fat guy. The redneck at the rodeo and the idiot frat boys get no sympathy from me and Cohen didn’t tell them what to say.

I agree that his schtick is at its best when he’s winding up public figures (especially when he’s channeling Ali G), but some of the civilians kind of deserve it. Not all, but some.

I’m no humor snob. Though I don’t often go for the low brow, gross out brand of humor, every now and again some of it will make me laugh, a la “There’s something about Mary” (not the hair gel scene; the zipper scene). I’m a big fan of SBC and enjoyed Borat, however I don’t think I would ever want to watch it again.

That being said, I never thought any of it was real. I didn’t even know we were * supposed * to believe it was real, so I didn’t feel the cringe factor, though I can understand how others did if they thought they were witnessing the humiliation that was portrayed. I may be speaking out of my ass, but I sill don’t think it was real. Or, maybe small parts were and were edited together at some point. I just find it hard to fathom that these people didn’t figure it out / weren’t let in on it. When the whole flap about the various lawsuits came up, to my cynical mind it had “publicity stunt” written all over it. I could be totally wrong, but I just don’t buy it. At the very least, wouldn’t all those involved have to sign releases in order for the footage to be used?
Has anyone read anything reliable that proves these were all unwitting victims?

Sorry to get off track, ** Sampiro**. I agree with what you said, if indeed these people were acually being played. If not, it was tasteless and ourageous, but no more hateful than an R rated episode of Punk’d.

What makes you laugh?

People have tried to figure out when and where many of Borat’s stunts took place, and a Salon article on the film admitted that this is the one that no can confirm one way or the other. Something tells me it was faked for the cameras.

This incident was also mentioned in the Salon article. The antique store owner was paid in full for all of the things Borat broke so he was perfectly fine with it.

I believe it was real, with the exception of the portion with Pamela Amderson. First of all, it’s not really that hard finding people like those shown in the film. As far as releases go, I have no doubt that SBC and the film’s producers hid/misrepresented their true intentions. It would be so easy for the camera guy to say,“Oh yea, I almost forgot, can you sign this? It’s nothing, it just means we can use the footage, no biggie.”, something like that. Also, we aren’t seeing the producer’s failures in this regard. We don’t know how many times people did catch on and kicked them out and/or refused to sign waivers.

Things that don’t involve humiliating an unwitting participant.

Hmmmmm. High ideals indeed, coming from one who lives at * 123 Fake Street *! :dubious: :stuck_out_tongue:

Getting back to the subject, I’m open to the fact that it was real, if some proof can be provided. I realize I’m the dumbass here, because it completely went over my head that it was supposed to be real. I don’t mean that in an arrogant “I figured out the Sixth Sense after fifteen minutes” kind of way. I mean I literally didn’t get that it was supposed to be taken as true. Color me duuuuuuuuuuuh.

I think the guy is hilarious. I laughed so hard I cried when I saw Borat in the theater. I closed my eyes during the naked wrestling, though - no need for that kind of brain pollution, thank you very much.

It seemed very obvious to me that there was all kinds of cut footage in most of the scenes. The fancy society dinner was no exception and the hostess conducted herself with more dignity than most of the other people in the movie combined, so I don’t see why she should be so embarrassed. The frat boys made total asses of themselves and have no one to blame but themselves. I was surprised that he held back so much at the Jesus freak session. I really expected him to cut loose but overall he really tamed it down. That seemed odd to me.

Kenny Banya?

I you liked the movie you should look into the previous pieces on the “Ali G Show” from which the film is derived. Absolutely brilliant.

Gold Jerry. GOLD!!

I don’t know about the actual conference, but the naked running through the hotel prior wasn’t staged. My wife works with the lady in the shorts and white T-shirt that got out of the elevator on one of the middle floors in the movie. She said it wasn’t staged and that they approached her later to sign a release to show her in the movie. She said she didn’t know what the hell was going on.

If that was real I’m inclined to believe the conference was too, but wouldn’t be suprised if it wasn’t because that’s alot of people to deal with.

Well-written OP.

I only stayed until just past the nude-wrestling scene.

The stunts themselves may or may not be funny according to individualized tastes. However duping real people into comedy sketches is destructive. The consequence of the embarrassment felt by the many real people who were trying to be decent and kind extends beyond their own humilitation. The consequence is destructive to all of us. I would like to live in a world where a stranger is welcomed to dinner, regardless of his origin. The sketch in this movie where those folks were humiliated, embarrassed and ridiculed will go a long way in making sure that many others never extend the invitation.

I am uninterested in someone else’s bad taste. But Borat makes the world a nastier place in which to live for everyone, not just those with bad taste.

Slate Magazine had an article last year about the consent forms and how they got people to be in the Borat movie. The article includes a copy of the consent form.

I haven’t seen the movie (I thought I might eventually watch it on DVD, so that I could fast forward through any too cringe-inducing part), but I thought the article was an interesting read.