I am not denying women freedom! They can use birth control as much as they want but once you have a baby, you have human life, which is sacred.
That is nonsense. Women having the right to vote and have abortions are unrelated. Early feminists like Susan B. Anthony were pro-life.
No it’s like the great mobilization efforts during the Great Depression as part of the New Deal. Also anyone able to work and able to get a job (ie not because he can’t find a job) will be denied welfare payments unless he searches for a job.
The word “sacred” implies, however, that you are basing your decision on religious beliefs, NOT on science. Which is your right, (and I’m not saying that saying that there isn’t a debate), but in our nation, religious beliefs are NOT what laws are based on.
If I may ask, how old are you? If I recall, you said you were around fourteen, correct? I only ask because it seems you have a very black and white, very rigid view of the world.
I thought we were discussing abortion. What does that have to do with delivering sacred babies, or babies in general for that matter? I don’t think any of us are advocating offing babies, other than the occasional sacrifice of the sacred ones.
Well, you kinda sorta are, or at least you would be if you had the power to implement any of your stubbornly short-sighted ideas.
Try an experiment - envision the U.S. ten years after an abortion ban. List every potentially positive outcome you can imagine and I’ll describe a few potential negatives.
Forcing them to act as brood mares is taking away their freedom. And birth control DOES fail you know.
And you can call it a “baby”, “a human life”, and “sacred” all you like, but a fetus is still just a mindless thing. If it is a human life, that just means that some types of human life can morally be ended as a woman desires. If it is sacred, that just means that some sacred things aren’t that important. And calling it a baby just means that some babies are just things. Labels do not change the thing that they label.
In case you haven’t noticed, we are suffering from unemployment. We don’t NEED any “mobilization efforts”.
And in the real world that would likely boil down to some right wing bureaucrat cutting off some blind guy’s disability benefits because he “wasn’t trying hard enough”.
Because “abortion” does not automatically equal “murder.” That doesn’t mean you have to support it. However, you should back up your arguments with, say scientific evidence, perhaps? Not “sacred”, or “sin” or what have you. At least, when it comes to the law, which is what this thread is supposed to be about, no?
I’m not knocking you for your age. Honestly I’m not. I’m just saying that you seem to have a very black and white view of the world, as I said.
Nonsense. They dehumanized, abused and killed actual people. Calling something subhuman isn’t dehumanizing when it really IS subhuman. It’s not dehumanizing when I call a dog “just an animal”, or a fetus just a “mindless lump of cells” because dogs really are animals, and a fetus really is a mindless lump of cells.
So do snakes; that doesn’t make killing a snake murder. What makes people of moral significance is their mind; a fetus has none. Killing a fetus is no more immoral than harvesting the organs of someone brain dead, and for the same reason; no one is there.
Apples to oranges. And a total strawman as well. Curtis, that doesn’t mean a fetus is a baby YET. That means it is on the stage to becoming a baby.
At any rate, a fetus =! baby. Not yet. And either way, I think what people are saying, that it’s MY body. (BTW, there are plenty of people who are anti-abortion, but who still believe that abortion should be kept legal)
Look, I thought this thread was supposed to be about the death penalty as well – it seems to be a “bait and switch” to express your “abortion is wrong” views. Which, you have every right to believe. But not if you’re going to jerk us around.
If they are as “mentally disabled” as a fetus, then they are essentially brain dead, so yes I’d kill them*. Not that it would be murder; such a thing isn’t a person, and isn’t even alive in the legal sense.
Assuming there was a reason to; like harvesting their organs because they have a donor card, or because the family asked for life support to be turned off. I’m not going to wander around shooting the brain dead for no particular reason.
Curtis while you are outlawing abortions and saving the lives of all these ‘babies’ would you also like to try to save the lives of other innocent people? I’m sure you would. Here is what you do. You pass a law that forces people to donate organs to those that need it. That is if someone in your area needs a transplant and you are a match (records would have to be taken of course) you would be forced to give up that organ so that the other person could live.
Now I am sure you agree this is barbaric – no one should be forced to have their health and quality of life ruined to save a stranger. Yet this is the consequence of outlawing abortions, you will be forcing women to have their health and quality of life ruined (for at least 9 months but potentially longer) for a stranger.
More and more I think abortion needs to be compared less to the death penalty and more to doctor assisted suicide/euthanasia/chronic illness and pain. Both are wonderful hypotheticals for endless debate which, mostly, has very little to do with the real experiences of actual people who have had to make difficult decisions, or have at least had their eyes opened a bit with some vague experience (a pregnancy scare, kidney stones – I imagine the same person, a stranger, lecturing a terrified woman waiting for the stick to turn blue about what decisions they will and won’t let her make, or telling someone having a root canal that people with chronic pain or illness are just complainers an they should feel lucky to be alive. Even better if it’s a 13-year-old boy!).
You’ve avoided my a part of my question, what about a newborn baby who can’t think. (NOTE: I’m saying this to Der Trihs who believe explicitly that thinking is the definition of human being)
Yes but if you don’t donate organs to someone and he dies it’s not direct murder but abortion is (again if we consider a fetus to be human).
We don’t know for sure if it can or not. The brain isn’t fully functional when born; for example newborns as I recall are actually blind because their primary visual cortex isn’t working ( their eyes track motion with a separate unconscious system; in adults with brain damage this is called blindsight ). Until brain science advances farther we can’t tell if a newborn baby thinks or not.