Bow down and worship this flag!

The BBQ Pit
1

Jumpin’ jack christ…

  1. Don’t try to hang flags on my windows. If I wanted a tattered piece of cloth to block out the sun, I would have already put it there. Having a flag in the window is my own fucking choice, not the choice of the “Patriotism brigade” that has to scrutinize everyone to make sure you have appropriate feelings of nationalism. This also applies to people tacking the single striped flags on all the flag poles, covering up already posted advertisements/notices in the process. This accomplishes nothing. If you see nothing wrong with covering up these ads and notices with a flag we’ve all seen too fucking much anyway, then I see nothing wrong with taking them down and shoving it up your ass. Of course, that wouldn’t be patriotic, would it? Which leads me to…

  2. Don’t bitch at me for being unpatriotic. Just because 4,000 people died, I don’t see any reason to start blindly following the U.S. Government and its War on Terrorism[sub]and free-thinkers[/sub]. In case you haven’t noticed, we still have the same Bible-thumpin’ Texas oil-baron in office as we did on September 10th. The intelligence failures of the FBI as of late and their desperate attempts to muster up support by declaring false alarms have done nothing to instill a sense of patriotism. The government is run by a bunch of clods with their thumbs up their asses, and I’m not going to pretend there’s nothing wrong with this.

  3. Don’t ever use the “if you don’t like it leave” argument. I heard this on Talkback Live today in response to the Patriotism-Enforcement Bill(see below). Most of these types of replies came from AOL users, which does not surprise me, as AOL users show an average I.Q. equal to that of a turnip. The idea that people should just pack up and leave the country because they don’t like certain aspects of the government is typical of the asinine conservative domination sweeping the U.S. Funny- I always thought that one of the major principles of the constitution was that people were supposed to fix problems they see with the government by voting for competent leaders. Perhaps you utter fuckwads should learn what the hell that flag actually means before you wave it all around and play “Born in the U.S.A.” 24/7. Oh, it’d also help if you learned the true meaning of that, too, you worthless pieces of shit.

  4. Stop trying to make patriotism enforced. It’s bad enough these idiots makes up the majority, but now I hear that a senator wants to make it a law that any organization which has a problem with flying the flag will be denied federal funds. So, really, to get federal funds you have to wave the flag. I believe the best way to sum my reaction to this is as follows: WHAT THE FUCK?!!?! WHAT could be the use of this law at all? Why the hell should I wave a flag if the government would force me to pretend I’m patriotic? See, one of the great things about the Constitution(Note: I said the Constitution, which is a seperate entity from the total fuckwads we have running our country at the moment) is that it allows people to have their own opinions and beliefs. But, of course, because of the War on Terrorism[sub]not carried out by the United States government or an ally[/sub], we all have to be patriotic. Remember, if you’re not with the government, you’re with the terrorists!

  5. I’m an neither with the government nor the terrorists. Since I do not fly a flag, does that mean that I am a terrorist under the State Department’s official definition(Any person of Middle Eastern descent or origin who performs suspicious activity, including walking or talking)? OOH NOO! I DIDN’T STAND UP DURING THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE! WATCH OUT, I’M A TERRORIST WHO PROBABLY PLANTED A NUCLEAR BOMB UNDER BOSTON! OOOOOH GOD!

… </heavy sarcasm>

  1. Don’t bitch me out for enjoying civil liberties. Yes, I realize that you think the Bill of Rights, with the exception of the second amendment, is a useless document that allows “damn terrorists” to run around free through our city. And yet you wave your little flag around, proud to be an American. I was always under the impression that white defined America most was the fact that we have a very liberal constitution that grants people “rights,” meaning powers. Gasp, you say. People having power? That must mean the government has, you guess it, less power! Can’t have any of that if we’re to wage the War on Terrorism[sub]and all Middle Eastern countries except Saudi Arabia[/sub]!

Thank you, goodnight.

2

lenin, may I ask you a question? It’s personal, so don’t answer if you don’t want to. Since it seems pretty obvious you didn’t vote for Bush in the last elections, who did you vote for? BTW, I did vote for Bush, albeit a little reluctantly.

3

America

Love it or leave it.

4

My fascist bitch homeroom teacher got pissed at me on Sept. 12th for not standing for the Pledge of Allegiance. I explained to her how it’s a violation of state/church separation, why I’m not a patriot (Marxists are not nationalists), and why it’s absurd to worship a stupid piece of cloth.

BTW, “America, Love it or Leave it” people:
(1) Some people cannot leave because the nationalistic frenzy and the “war on terrorism” (war on anybody who isn’t a flag-waving American nationalist) has increased security.
(2) Some people can’t afford to leave.
(3) Most people have established a life here. Most people would prefer not to leave friends, family, jobs, communities, etc. and travel to another country in the name of politics that don’t happen to be mainstream politics.
(4) Leave to where? As far as I’m concerned, there is no non-oppressive government in power anywhere in the world. They’re all corporate republics like America or totalitarian dictatorships like Saudi Arabia (whose gov’t structure is not that much different from the Taliban) or China.

5

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion and beliefs, yer timing probably could have been a bit better…

6

Would you explain how the Pledge of Allegiance is religious?

7

“one nation, under God…”

Those who believe in no God, don’t know if there’s a God, or believe in many gods are lying every time they say the Pledge of Allegiance. The government is expressing a belief in monotheism (a type of religion) in having these words in the Pledge of Allegiance, which is contradictory to other decisions of the government, such as the banning of the Ohio motto that mentioned “God”.

If believing in God isn’t religious, I don’t know what is.

8

Your money mentions God too. Do you use it?

9

I can’t speak for the Donut, but I’m guessing it’s that “one nation, under God” bit. What I don’t get is why the Pledge of Allegiance is ‘worshipping’ the flag.

Of course when I went to school, one of my classmates was a Jahovas Witness (I think) and she never stood for the Pledge of Allegience. There is no obligation for a student to stand, so either way, the teacher was wrong for chastizing the student’s choice.

However, in light of the previous day’s events Jelly Donut, would it have killed you to stand for two minutes out of respect for the dead? You needn’t say the words or anything, just stand for a couple minutes as opposed to arguing philosophical beliefs.

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And then Crunchy Frog learns the value of previewing before he posts and thus would have seen Jelly Donut had answered that question.

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Lenin… you tell 'em babe.

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Of course I use money. Money is necessary for leading a life other than a hermit. But I’m opposed to the mention of God on it for the same reasons. I’m forced to use it.

Crunchy Frog: I don’t need to stand for the dead. There are other ways to honor them than to worship a flag. I donated money, I cried the day of the attacks, I reflected for days, I participated in the moments of silence, but I don’t see nationalism as a way of dealing with an international problem.

13

I respect the OP’er’s opinion, though I disagree with it in part, but I think you Jelly Donut actually weaken your own position when you employ obviously indefensible bullshit such as construing those who disgree with you as “worshiping the flag.”

14

I hear there are many countries that don’t have “God” on their money.
Perhaps you could relocate? You would be happier.

15

I dunno, I’ve always found it odd and jarring that we are pledging allegiance to the flag itself “and the country for which it stands” instead of pledging allegiance to the country “and the flag which happens to stand for it”. I wouldn’t call it worship either but I do think it is just plain weird. Then again - and I’m glad this is the pit because my beliefs often get me flamed - I think this is just a plot of land on which I am born, and I can separate the land from the blood of the people who died for the rights that we practice in this land. Similarly I can separate the flag from the rights, and be quite happy with living with my liberties without displaying the flag everywhere I go.

moves on to the OP and applauds

I’m not a patriotic person - for as many wonderful things there are in this country I can think of something I don’t like about its politics or its setup or the way it is being run - and I don’t believe that I am compelled to love and honour this land at all times just because I was born here. That was not my choice. I do not know where I would have chosen to be born if I could have had the choice - but I did not, and just being born here isn’t enough reason for me to love the place.

Certainly, if you agree with most everything our country stands for in its Constitution and most everything our country has done in defence or promotion of said Constitution, then I can see where this devotion can come from, and how it could incense you that other people don’t display their pride as well as you do. But I don’t agree with the entire Constitution nor do I agree with everything our country has done - and that does not make me “less American”. It means I am exercising my American right to free speech and dissenting opinions, that I am obligated to do what I can to change government policy through the democratic process granted to me by our Constitution, and that it is just as American to disagree with our country as it is to agree with our country.

That’s what I say to people who confront me with “America - Love it or Leave it” attitudes. It usually quiets them down fairly quickly. If not, I use the “love it or leave it” approach on them - I turn around and walk away.

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Or perhaps s/he could stay and contribute his/her point of view to a public forum and work for change to form a more perfect union, as is essential to the life of a democracy, Reeder.

17

Yeah, that’s what I was gonna say. What I love about America is that you don’t have to leave just because you don’t agree with governmental policy. Instead, you can work to have policies changed.

18

Yeah, it’s so rude to hold on to a personal philosophy in the face of adversity.

Okay, I’ll back down. Being an Angry Atheist never made me happy. But people have to realize that what they consider ‘common courtesy’ is to others a hypocritical abandonment of basic principles.

I had to face this same argument in grade school about my atheism. I made the wrong decision, and my stomach still churns at the thought of it.

19

Duke. :smiley:
I have never felt comfortable with the pledge of allegiance. I’m not a Jehovah’s witness, on the contrary, I’m a strict atheist. It always seemed like blind idolatry- You pledge allegiance to an inanimate object? Also, when you make a pledge, you say you won’t go back on it. So you’re saying that you’ll have complete unwavering allegience to the flag and country, so you’ll agree to everything forcefed to you. Ick.

20

I call myself an agnostic. But it galls me when someone can’t say the pledge because “God” is in it. That’s bullshit. As I said before, he spends the money. That’s two faced.

I don’t go along with it when I can make waves, but I can when it benefits me.

Screw that.