Inspired by this thread, it seems to me that reverence for patriotic objects such as flags, along with methods for their ceremonious and proper disposal, border on a sort of metaphysical appreciation of said objects. So I’m curious as to the opinions of atheists on this matter.
Anyone care to enlighten me? What do you think of reverence for flags? Patriotism generally? Do you think ceremonious ‘proper disposal’ is a waste of time and effort? Or what?
I’m mystified by reverance for flags. They are a symbol, nothing more.
I think patriotism and all of its symbols are pretty stupid. I thinking owning a flag is stupid, displaying it even stupider, and spending time and effort over proper disposal even more stupid.
And if I were out camping and had diarrhea and the only choices for cleanup were a handful of leaves or the American flag, there would be not a seconds hesitation before the flag was red, white, blue and brown. 
I do follow all of the proper protocols on displaying and disposing of the U.S. flag. I’m afraid I don’t understand the statement “They are a symbol, nothing more”.
The U.S. flag symbolizes the United States of America, which I love, therefore I treat it’s symbol with reverence.
Christians get upset when an artist shows a crucifix in a pot of piss, Muslims get upset seeing Mohammed with a bomb in his turban, etc, etc.
Symbols can be powerful objects.
I am an atheist and I hold the flag in high regard as a symbol of a respected tangible object; the United States. It is symbolic and not a reverence as you describe. As to the ceremonial aspect, I think a respectful handling of symbols is good for the inner person. I don’t destroy Bibles or Qu’rans but don’t feel there is anything holy about the object.
Flag burning is seen as a sign of protest and exercise of free speech and, while I would defend their right to do so, I personally would not participate. As long as respectful ceremony does not get confused with religious dogma I think it can be appropriate for those wishing to be involved.
If you have seen a funeral for a soldier and the respect with which the flag is handled and delivered to the wife or husband I can think of no other way I would have it. As to the flag, if I needed to use one for a bandage or tourniquet I would not hesitate.
As to the patriotism I have said before:
I love my Country but distrust my Leaders.
I think this post is a wee bit overly sarcastic and uncalled for, as you express your fatuitous views on patriotism and the flag.
Personally, I feel much like August West on this one.
I see it as nothing more than a symbol. NBD. I fail to see what the question has to do with atheism, however. While some people equate the flag with Jesus (who was from Kansas, of course), I’d think that for most people religion and patriotism are completely seperate.
Indeed - I’m trying to understand why atheists would do something quite similar, if indeed they would.
If I see a union flag (or the stars’n’stripes) being mistreated I know exactly why and don’t give it a second thought. I certainly won’t be offended.
If I see the three legs of man being mistreated I’ll certainly wonder why (“What did the Isle of Man do to you”) but I won’t feel any offence.
As for patriotism in general. I still have a lingering respect for my country of Birth (Britain and/or England) but it’s nothing like it once was.
My views are stupid becasue you don’t share them? Wasn’t this country founded on being tolerant of differing views?
As an Englishman I’ve always been surprised and pleased at the reverance that Americans show towards their flag. This flag is the symbol of America and you should rightly be proud of what it stands for.
I’ve also been extremely pissed off that we don’t display the same feelings towards our own
As an Englishman I associate the Union Jack/St George Cross with nationalist xenophobes and/or football fanaticism - as an atheist it makes no sense to me to imbue concrete items with any larger significance than themselves. Though saying that, if I saw people on TV burning huge photos of my mum, I would feel offended :dubious: .
A question for Americans I suppose.
Your post simply didn’t seem fitting for the thread…Not because I don’t share your views, but because it was [IMO] overly snarky. That’s all. Nothing against you at all.
You made probably the most offensive remarks possible about those of us who proudly display the U.S. flag, who have served in the military under that flag and to whom those stars and stripes are a visual shorthand for everything that is good and right about the country we once vowed to die for – and you ended the whole thing with a smiley face. That is stupid.
Actually, nothing I said in my post was snarky- believe it or not, it was my honest opinion, which the OP was soliciting.
If you abhor patriotism, you just reveal your inner fears. Patriotism does not mean crazed nationalism. I picture the flag as a beacon, much like the Statue of Liberty.
There are millions of patriotic people, some who are atheists, like me. You can fly the flag, follow protocol AND show the same respect towards other nations and other people.
It is very much in human nature to have symbols with powerful meanings. If I can learn to respect and honor symbols important to country, I am on the right track when it comes to respecting other people, their traditions and the things they hold dear.
Having a flag and respecting protocol is a symbol, but it is also a symbol to wipe one’s ass with it, or reject it. You should be able to do anything you want with it, but don’t think that by rejecting the flag and the protocols that you reject symbols. You are just choosing different symbolism.
So you don’t associate the St Georges Cross or The Union Flag with England/Great Britain then.
Just xenophobis and football?..strange person
Patriotism, to me, is loving where you live. I certainly do. Is there a reverence for the flag? There certainly is, because it’s some outward symbol of the place you live. Would you have reverence for a map in the same way? No, no you would not. A standard is different because of its symbolism.
In closing (or in rambling) a flag has meaning attached behind it. When people say things like “your forefathers paid for (this) with their blood”, the flag is pretty much it.
Those people died for my right to have that opinion- you do realize that, right, not just for those who share the same opinions? You do realize the basis on which the country was founded, right? The OP asked for honest views, these are mine. I realize you may find them abhorrent or disgusting- I find patriotism to be a bizarre concept. But I respect those that are, and I don’t go around directly insulting them for no reason.
Perhaps to elaborate on the question; why does it matter, for example, if a flag is not disposed of in the specific, elaborate manner recommended. Why does it matter if, instead of cutting it twice (but not across the field of stars) then burning it and burying the ashes, we simply bury it, or fold it and burn it, or toss it in the trash?
If nobody is watching when we dispose of it, what is the purpose of the ceremony, if not somehow metaphysical?