As much as my political views are pretty much the exact opposite of Una’s, I have to post a “ditto what she said”.
And I’ll even nitpick that she didn’t go far enough. The level of inspection that Una deems a herculean effort wouldn’t work either. It’s the kind of intrusive inspection that’s used on visitors to prisons. And we all know that that doesn’t work, either. Contraband still finds its way into prisons, no matter what kind of screening goes on. The weak point is the staff. And there’s just no way in the current environment to address the problem.
Hackers and virus-spreaders cause huge disruptions in business and personal computers and cost people like metime and money to get our computers fixed.
This kid smuggled box-cutters and modeling clay on board some planes and caused no one any harm or disruption—indeed, he had to repeatedly tell them he’d done it.
If someone writes a virus, that’s one thing. Breaking into your computer, leaving a text file describing how they did it, and emailing you as to the existence of the file is something else.
Goat. He didn’t demonstrate to any intelligent person what s/he did not already know.
Una said it before I got here. I fly. I know that I cannot fly with 100% assurance that there are no weapons on board. I do believe that efforts have been stepped up, but you will NEVER have 100% assurance. Nor will I ever have 100% assurance someone won’t blow up the bridge I travel over on a nearly daily basis (one of the three downtown NYC East River crossings, considered a prime target), despite increased police presence and inspections.
What security needs to do is to let people know that there is an much increased chance of being caught (not saying there is, but security has to at least give that impression). An increased chance of being caught also decreases the likelyhood of a coordinated assault. One man with one boxcutter (or twelve boxcutters) is no longer a threat. The crew and passengers won’t allow it any more. Even 5 men might not be able to pull such a stunt off ever again.
Send the punk to jail and let him rot. He’s an idiot.
The clay the kid carried on should have been picked up at the Xray stage, but it’s forgiveable. Clay would not be picked up either by trace detedtion equipment or sniffer dogs, as it bears no chemical similarity to plastic explosive. I have done a fair bit of work for a company that produces the majority of the trace detection equipment used in US airports.
The box cutters may be more serious, but does anyone really think the same ploy the hijackers used on Sep 11th would work again? Would a plane full of people really believe that the plane was just being hijacked, and not used as a weapon again?
It could have caused harm. Even though he didn`t intend it to.
If he had been caught with this stuff in the airport it would have stopped air traffic in that airport for a few hours. Or it may have been discovered in-flight causing panic onboard the plane.
It also sets up a copy-cat environment where others may try to smuggle this type of stuff onboard and when they`re caught they can use the same excuse. That is why I think he deserves some time for it, though not the ten years max. Maybe one year with probation and/or a heavy fine.
“What security needs to do is to let people know that there is an much increased chance of being caught (not saying there is, but security has to at least give that impression).”
I think that the young man’s actions clearly show that there ISN’T an increased chance of getting caught - as has been pointed out, he told the authorities what he did and it took them 4 months to take any action. If, as you suggest, things have to be done only for effect, or to give an impression, than the kid’s done exactly that - he’s made a pretty big impression.
Isn’t there, plnnr. I often see short spots on local news about all the items that do get confiscated on airline flights. Again, there is no 100% guarantee of security. There isn’t even a 99%, not if you want to fly the same day you arrive at the airport. Items will get through - I don’t need a 20 year old punk to tell me that.
Could the airline have better followed up? I think so. Does that absolve the punk? Not in the least.
Fry him*
*For the hyperbole-impaired, that means I hope he gets some jail time - enough to at least send a message to future wannabes
I just want to say that I’m alumni (Class of '00) of his college, and I’m rather proud of him. Community service and peaceful means of changing the world are tenets of Guilford, and he’s taking an active role in the safety of our country. Certainly more than I’m doing.
On one hand, my vote is goat. Its the same kind of affection I might feel for a crazy aunt. Is airline security really a such an important issue, compared to, say, poverty and IMF policies, or the Middle East, or, hell, even the community actions in Greensboro (sociological studies, working with the Laotian immigrants) that students are encouraged to take part in?
If he’s pointing out the hypocrisy of the Bush administration pouring billions into Homeland Security and accomplishing nothing, well, duh, and his behavior will never change that. In that sense, a waste of his effort.
Still, hero, because he acted, and he acted non-violently, and he’s taking the responsibility and the consequences on his own shoulders. He knows he’ll do time for breaking the law, and he doesn’t seem to be afraid, or feel that its unjust.
Thoreau and Martin Luther King, Jr. spent time in jail for their acts of civil disobedience (Not sure about Ghandi). Its part of the process. Hopefully he’ll come out on the other side better, and still believing.
I think the other thing we are forgetting about here (that was mentioned earlier in the thread) is that this isn’t just about clay and boxcutters. He let the authorities (the TSA, if I heard the news story right) know what he was doing. And this has been happening since April…
I thought the shiny new homeland security department was supposed to be right on top of all communications and elimate the problems we had with intelligence before 9/11. Obviously, they can’t even be bothered to look at a direct confession and pass it on, let alone sniff out someone who wishes to remain anonymous. All that money spent, the “mood ring” alert system, and the tough talk amount to nothing, really. The fundamental problem remains.
“This kid just said ‘The Emperor has no clothes’ in such a way as to embarass the administration. For that he’ll get slapped a bit.”
I think they’ll slap him more than just a bit. Ashcroft is a dangerous zealot. The kid’s a hero. He may not be as effective as some others have been in the past, but he’s making them admit they don’t have the answer to this problem (maybe because there isn’t one???)
What I’d like to see someone address (in a safe way!) is the fact that the majority of checked luggage goes completely unscreened. That makes me more nervous than someone with a boxcutter!
While I personally think that the college man’s (he’s an adult, not a kid) act wasn’t exactly the brightest thing to do, I do see that it’s yet another bit of evidence that Ridge has managed to do one thing and one thing only in office: get paid.
As a matter of fact, there isn’t one and can’t be one.
I think this kid did something that can/could/may prove valuable. You’re decieving yourself if you think that there is a solution to all airport security problems or that there are no tradeoffs involved. Bruce Schneier writes extensively about security, and he claims that there’s no catch-all solution, just different countermeasures and different tradeoffs: we (as a nation) need to have a public debate about security, and before we can have that debate, people need to understand that there’s no perfect security.
Many of the posters on the SDMB are aware that airport security isn’t perfect, but that isn’t enough people.
Until your mother-in-law, your little sister, your dentist, and your mechanic understand the essence of good security (understanding threats and tradeoffs), then this country cannot have an effective public debate about security measures.
Until most Americans understand that there is no absolute solution, the government will continue to be free to implement heavy-handed but ineffective security measures.
If this student’s actions cause more people to think critically about security then he’s done something valuable.
He’s proven nothing. Anybody with half a brain realized how pointless most of the new security procedures were.
He’s accomplished nothing. If the government does actually change security porcedures, they’ll simply add more time consuming yet thoroughly ineffective things instead of scrapping the current system and replacing it with one that will actually work.
The rock this kid turned over is not about the actual security procedures. It’s perfectly obvious that anyone who’s determined and intelligent can get pretty much anything onto an airplane if they want to. Hell, I can arm myself with a much more dangerous weapon than a box cutter if I pull the retractable handle out of my rolling carry-on bag, sharpen the metal tips, and slide it back in. Piece of cake.
No, what this kid has exposed is the pointlessness of the bureaucracy. The raison d’etre of Homeland Security and the Transportation Security Administration was to roll all the law-enforcement and security functions up under big umbrellas, so you wouldn’t have all these micro-managed mini-departments competing with each other and failing to communicate. As a stated goal, that’s absolutely a worthwhile objective; without question the shortsightedness of the government’s Little Caesars contributed to the successful planning and execution of 9/11, so we’re spending a shitload of money on changing the status quo and making the system work better. What this kid did was not about the irrelevance of tighter security at the airport; what this kid did was to demonstrate that the new bureaucracy is no better at monitoring security, and perhaps worse, than the preceding arrangement.
Preventing another 9/11, or something even more horrifying, requires that the government get its act together and knock down all the silos into which it habitually divides itself. HS and the TSA were supposed to do that. So far, they haven’t. That is valuable information.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by musicguy *
**Just out of curiosity, do you fly much? Because I think a lot of people thought they were safer than they actually were. **
Once or twice a year. If my flight–a flight Al Qaeda never targeted for fiery death–were delayed for several HOURS because some kid thought he’d dabble in unsolicited security consultation, I wouldn’t even fly that often.
How grateful would you be if he’d put a flash-paper “bomb” under your car and a “CUT ME!” sign on your brake cable? Not a fair comparison, I know; Cars are sabotaged a lot more often than planes.