Like the article said, only a few months ago, I remember the BSA affirming their position on gays, and I think just recently in the last 2 months there was a scout who was being denied his Eagle badge for being gay.
I’m stunned. I knew they would eventually come around of course, the anti-gay bandwagon has rode off into the sunset years ago and is not coming back, but I didn’t expect it to be this quick as the article is speculating. Also, aren’t the BSA heavily involved with Mormons? Just 4 years ago they were donating millions to California’s Prop 8, and now they’re close to getting rid of the ban?
Unfortunately it still doesn’t go far enough. For as long as they had the ban in place, enforced from the top down, they shouldn’t now leave it up to the individual troops, as the article says they are considering. They should enforce a policy of no discrimination for all the Boy Scouts, that would only be fair. But good for them if they are serious in doing something about this.
My kid was an Eagle Scout. I doubt it has to do with any fundamental sea change in personal attitudes at the top of the Scouting and a lot more to do with anti-gay positions disqualifying the BSA from being endorsed or supported by various companies. I imagine it’s also costing them recruits in some demographics.
The BSA should be ashamed of itself re how long and hard they have held onto this nonsense.
If this decision gets passed at the national level, it means that while the National BSA organization will not be able to discriminate on sexual orientation, they will allow local BSA charters to discriminate all they want. Basically the BSA is trying to cut its financial and member losses by not having to deal with the issue and passing it onto the local level charter troops. They aren’t really trying to be non-discriminatory.
I think just trying to make themselves look good in the wake of the peodphile issue. No real desire for equality just a “see we’re trying” because of lawsuits. Especially since each troop gets to decide for itself.
They should be ashamed of themselves for pussyfooting around with this, and just man up and admit that they want to keep being discriminatory assholes. Which, I’ll remind everyone, they’re totally allowed to do - they just need to take the consequences for it if that’s the route they want to go, which is what they’re trying to avoid with this shit.
Certainly it’s passing the buck. But with the ‘official’ stance changing, the troups are now on their own. And therefore local shaming/lawsuits will be much more effective. How many troups can afford a protracted court battle. And how many more will fold immediately once they start seeing the others going broke and still losing?
Man, I wish the BSA had never waded into their anti-gay bullshit. I was a scout (never made Eagle) but loved it just the same. At least in my troop, religion never went beyond the occasional reference to God and saying a fairly generic grace before meals.
There was so much good about my experience - camping, hiking, building huge bonfires, swimming, shooting, nature lore, singing, climbing, ceremonies, cooking, just hanging out with dudes my age. Scouting really was a positive experience, I was deeply saddened when they decided to make it political, because there really is something great there.
Having a couple family members that are gay, out, and everyone in the family is OK with that - psssht, c’mon, BSA. Join the damn 21st century.
/far lefty
//Boy Scout Camp is one of my fondest childhood/adolescent memories
You have to start somewhere. It’s not like the Montgomery buses were desegregated because whites there suddenly started liking blacks. It was desegregated because the boycott hit them where it hurt. Right in the wallet.
Our scout troop started a “Diversity” merit badge years ago, after a strongly-worded letter from the leaders to the national board. We continued to have a couple of flamboyant leaders and scouts, and actively recruited gays and (gasp!) *GIRLS *into our troop.
I hope this happens in time. Our sponsoring organization (the big UCC church on Old University Avenue) had decided to show us the (stained glass) door because of the national policy. They were going to years ago, but our local disregard for the rules swayed them.
It’s amazing the amount of bigotry being displayed on the Boy Scouts Facebook Page. I’d be ashamed to be a scout and be associated with some of those people.
As an asistant cub scout den leader I’m glad to see the BSA moving in the right direction, at least.
From a practical perspective, they were between a rock and a hard place. The ban on gays was costing them sponsorships from some corporations and progressive churches like digs’; but mandating inclusivity from the top down would lead to a massive disaffiliation from conservative groups and churches on the other side. I heard one church leader - I think the BSC - complaining on the radio this morning about the new rule.
So I think they took a route that protects the local scouting groups as much as possible, by letting them decide on the local level whether or not to risk losing their sponsoring organization. It’s not ideal, but I do strongly suspect that the number of packs/troops that discriminate against gays will continue to shrink - probably pretty rapidly.
Gay dude checking in - I was in Cub Scouts, then Webelos (do they still have that group?) and then Boy Scouts. Never made it to Eagle Scout (no easy feat!) and sort of fizzled out when I had to try to learn Morse Code and failed miserably.
There were quite a few Gay kids in scouts as I grew up - it was no big deal and everyone sort of “knew” but didn’t discuss it back in those days. I think the sole Eagle Scout in our town during my stint was a Gay guy…but can’t be sure as I didn’t know him all that well, but in retrospect I think I am right.
Scouting was mostly fun - we got to learn all kinds of things that we probably would never have learned from our dads or from anyone else; some survival techniques, self confidence, working as a team, doing community activities, learning about nature and the environment - I really did learn quite a bit, even if some of it was sort of by osmosis.
The point is - it was stupid to have an outright ban on Gays in Scouts to begin with and I agree it is time for the organization to get with the program. If anything, Gay kids need the interaction and skills perhaps more than anyone else - especially if they come from a single parent home or perhaps have had difficulties learning how to interact with other kids in a more informal environment. For example - my gym teachers throughout school were mostly bullies who only wanted to work with the best and strongest kids - all the rest of us were relegated to the “loser” category and treated as such. In Scouts, we had to climb trees, build rope bridges and walk across them (scary at the time, but fun!) and hike long distances and learn to swim better, etc. In other words, we got to do things at our own speed and learn and get better without some frustrated ex-Marine calling you names and humiliating you in gym class for an hour every day. I learned more, and got better, in those weekly Scout meetings than I ever learned in daily gym classes.
So I guess I am saying I want to thank all of those adults who volunteered to be Scout Masters and would work with a bunch of kids and teach them some basics skills - all the while making it fun and a learning experience - even if some of those kids were Gay.
The Times article on this said that Scout membership has fallen a lot - though I can’t say that isn’t from kids having other things to do.
The good thing about this is that while the bigoted troops can stay bigoted, leaders can start their own, non-bigoted troops nearby given sponsorship. In some place that won’t go anywhere, but in some it might drive the bigoted troops out of business. Given the people who run this thing, this is about the best we can hope for.
I also only made it to Life. My father, who was a scout when he was a kid and who did all sorts of high level volunteer work even after I left, started a troop. so it is not that hard.
As for individual units being able to decide to discriminate, that is the nature of the beast. Unit are owned by organizations and in a way areexpected to reflect the ideals of that organization. For a fundamentalist Christian church to ban homosexuals in their unit is no worse than a Orthodox Jewish troop not camping on Saturday or a Jainism organization only allowing vegetarians in their troop. At least now you have a choice is you don’t agree with the troop’s stance you can pick another.
I am disappointed that in leaving it up to the unit, BSA is doing nothing to counter the myth held by many in Scouting that homosexual = child rapist. Now that there is a choice, I need to ask myself that if my troop’s chartered organization gives still bans homosexuals and another nearby troop doesn’t, will I leave as Scoutmaster noe that there is a choice over my disagreement with the anti-homosexual policy.