Haven’t got a prayer. 
What about gay atheists? They get half a membership. 
Some of the comments and reactions from this are saying they expect those sponsored by churches to pull their charter when it expires.
This is an important step forward, and overall I’m glad, but I really wish the BSA had (a) permitted church-chartered individual troops and packs the option of retaining the earlier policy, so that no one would feel forced from Scouting based on a religious objection to the new policy, and (b) had permitted gay adults as well as gay youth to take part in Scouting. As it now stands, a gay boy must leave Scouting on his 18th birthday, no matter how much he might have wished to take part in young adult leadership.
In response to A - while I understand what you’re saying, if a chartering org decided to ban blacks, women leaders, or bald people from joining, I imagine National would want to put the nix on that too.
In response to B - they could join venturing and stay until 21, but the larger point of “now we like you now we don’t” is going to be the obvious contradiction that will plague the organization for a while. I have a feeling this is a hope that the organization will not fall apart, and after enough people see that gay youth isn’t destroying the organization, getting gay leaders will not cause the backlash it did in February.
Baby steps…
I’ve already had one boy in my cub scout den (I’m a leader) say his parents won’t let him come back next year. I started a pit thread about it recently. But I hope within a few years the policy will be expanded to include leaders also.
BTW, “local option” was used when the BSA first started allowing black scouts and women leaders. I thought that would be a better compromise this time, to prevent a bunch of packs and troops from losing their sponsor orgs. But this is definitely a step in the right direction, and may encourage other non-discriminatory orgs to step up and fill the void left by the Baptists and others who will drop out.
They’re past the point where baby steps are meaningful. Baby steps might have meant something in 2000, or 2005. They’re just damning with faint praise now.
People are going to remember the BSA as an anti-gay organization for a long time, and it’s 100% deserved. (And I think that might be why the LDS church, a large sponsor of Boy Scout troops which heavily integrates scouting into its youth programs, has recently avoided open opposition to any change. The church hierarchy knows all too well what it’s like to wait just a little too long on an equality issue.)
I disagree. Entrenched religious and traditional mindsets are hard to fight. Took a hundred years after slavery was made illegal until the Civil Rights Act was passed. While I don’t think it will take a hundred years for gays to get full equality, I’m pleased with the progress. Sure it can be faster, but if people just stopped being assholes and homophobic tomorrow, we wouldn’t have an issue.
I think the silliness of telling gay kids they have to leave when they become adults will force yet another re-examination of the policy, and lead finally to full recognition down the line fairly soon.
Gay marriage is still not legal in many states, including California of all places. The Boy Scouts are not that far behind, are now in front of many people in the US.
Interestingly, the Mormons supported this proposal. Their units are part of the 61% that voted in favor of letting in gay youth members. The Southern Baptists, however, are already talking about making their units shift over to the Royal Ambassadors (never heard of it personally).
This is going to cost us some members (we are already down a third in membership from the 90s). I expect a drop in units and members next year as we approach the end-of-year re-chartering. I expect many units to have to find a new sponsor organization when their church refuses to sign off. I am already working with my church to sponsor a new unit, since we go so far as to ordain gays and lesbians (Presbyterian Church USA). In the past, my church was NOT willing to sponsor. The banning of gay and lesbian adults is still be a hurdle however.
This is a huge step forward, and on the inside everyone expects allowing adults in the very near future. If the die hard anti-gay people all quit Scouting, the next vote will be even easier.
The Scouts in Canada had a drop when they ended the barrier, but have recovered. The UK has no ban, and they do not see this as a hindrance any more. The BSA will take a hit, and will then recover.
I just want to end the damned distraction of this entire debate, because that is what it is. It is a debate the truly has nothing to do with my operation of a Pack, Troop or Crew. The ONLY issue I will have to deal with is IF a gay scout has a problem finding someone to share a tent with. Then again, I ALREADY have that problem with certain Scouts who are having problems with getting along. This is just a new issue in that area.
I will probably have to deal with some expressed bigotry among a few Scouts and their parents. Luckily the boys in my unit know that I do not tolerate anti-gay comments already, so this is nothing new.
No. It will be lawsuits and the other financial costs of remaining bigots.
The only remaining lawsuits have been around access to public facilities, and those are for the most part done. The biggest hit was when public schools could no longer sponsor Cub Scout Packs. The BSA won at the Supreme Court level to choose their membership. The great thing about this change is that it was done by an internal vote, after an internal survey. That is much better than being forced by law IMHO.
The financial hit is going to be big when more conservative churches and parents pull their kids from Scouting. That will cost us millions of dollars in annual dues and donations.
We have already felt the hit when United Way stopped their support, and some other large corporations stopped donating as well.
Will they come back now? I ceased my donations based on the bigotry (and I let the national organization know it). I will come back at 50% now, not returning to 100% until adults are allowed in.
We are going to lose money, the big challenge will be surviving without too many cuts (the biggest being when we have to sell off properties) as we try to recover and grow once again.
Who would they sue? If the BSA votes to remove a ban on gays, how would any church or organization have standing to force them to change? The only thing they can do is stop sponsoring them, and when they leave, the BSA will face even less discrimination
People who continue to be discriminated against will sue. That is gay adults, who will have far more resources and support available to them than most gay children.
And the more they cling to their last shreds of discriminatory policies, the more other organizations will withdraw support, which is what I meant by other financial costs.
Gay adults tried to sue for the right to be an adult leader. They lost in a 5:4 decision at the Supreme Court in the Dale decision. The BSA has the Constitutional Right to choose who to associate with.
The only place for lawsuits is about given the BSA preference towards the use of any publicly owned facilities - and there are plenty of those still going on.
Donations has been an issue. This is part of why this decision was made - Councils across the nation have been feeling the hit from a drop in donations from large corporations.
One step at a time people.
Now that the BSA has allowed boys who are gay to be scouts, then it’s only a matter of time until gays will be allowed to be leaders.
Even if it’s another generation, until the current leadership dies out, and the BSA needs more leaders, it will come.
A former deacon at our church, now deceased, was a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Eagle Scout, troop leader, and on scouting boards until his death. For over eighty years. He could very well be the person longest continually associated with the BSA in the United States.
But it didn’t start out easy. He was a Lone Scout up until he became an Eagle Scout. And this in a city with Boy Scout troops, that he wasn’t allowed to join.
Why?
Joe Thompson was black. When he became a leader he started the first troop for black kids in our city.
The prejudice against people like Joe ended, so will the discrimination against gays.
Missed the edit window.
Just in case folks thought I was making up a story.
http://cjonline.com/stories/022700/kid_scouts.shtml
http://etext.ku.edu/view?docId=ksrlead/ksrl.kc.thompsonjoe.xml
Great story, Baker. Thanks.
The RAs are the mission study group for boys. If they follow through on this, they will have to expand their program; they have nothing for boys past sixth grade. RAs at our church were supposed to be studying missions; but they did nothing but build race cars for a derby.
I don’t know what our church will do with their BSA chapter. We didn’t let our son be a part of it because the group here is nothing but a bunch of bullies. I am very happy that the BSA has finally taken this step, and hope it isn’t long until they, like the GSA, are all inclusive.
Washington Post article here on the genesis of the recent policy change. A friend of mine thought the member survey was worded to encourage lifting the ban. I thought the survey was worded to encourage keeping the ban. According to this article, we were both wrong. BSA leaders used the survey to craft a policy that was as acceptable as possible to the current national council. BSA didn’t just take a majority vote, they looked at the trends and the bigger picture, and moved forward. I still think they should have gone farther, but I also think it’s a matter of time before openly gay adult volunteers are allowed to be BSA members.
Southern Baptists are grumbling: http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/31/southern-baptists-to-urge-churches-and-members-to-cut-boy-scout-ties/?hpt=hp_t2
This decision is almost worse than before. Mostly because its just so stupid. Saying nobody can be gay, youth or adult, is bigoted and hateful, but its consistent and imo an organization has the right to be bigoted and hateful. But this compromise decision just makes no sense at all.
So, BSA is now saying - its fine to be gay until midnight of your 18th birthday, then its not cause…??? Do gay 17 years become gay pedophiles at 12:01? Werewolves? Vampires?
I’m straight, and I’m a 3rd generation Eagle Scout. I finished my project and Eagle board just a few weeks before I turned 18 (winter weather caused a project delay and I cut it real close!). At that time I was a Junior Asst Scoutmaster (Basically an under 18 Asst Scoutmaster, having served as Senior Patrol Leader for a long time, I passed the torch). When I turned 18, I became an Asst Scoutmaster, and had my Eagle Ceremony a couple of months later. So when I stood in front of my Troop, family, friends, community, congressman, senator, etc. accepting my award, I was wearing my Asst Scoutmaster Badge on my full uniform.
If I was gay and these rules were in place back then - well, I certainly wouldn’t have been wearing the Asst Scoutmaster Badge. Maybe even not the uniform. Could I have had a ceremony? I would have still been an Eagle Scout I suppose. So, I was considered a top Scout, a leader and an Eagle Scout until I turned 18, and then - get lost, go away, you’re not worthy?
There is a saying in Boy Scouts - Once an Eagle, Always an Eagle. Guess that’s not true anymore. I wrote an email to BSA pointing out just how many points of the Scout Law and Oath this policy is breaking.
One that particularly bothers me after this decision: Brave. This compromise is so cowardly its disgusting.