From the statement
This actually isn’t true. The other countries offer scouting, but because they allow girls the Mormon church refuses to participate. Apparently, the LDS troops in Canada are allowed to exclude girls.
Liberal Mormons are furious that the statement used “youth” because it’s ignoring the girls.
It’s funny you say Atlanta, because that’s where I am too, although I’m in North Fulton.
I know which troop is which because as a commissioner and later as a chapter adviser, the troop was always listed next to the charter org when a got a spreadsheet of the active units. Try to arrange a commissioner visit? The ones that didn’t want someone coming by were chartered by an LDS church. Try to arrange OA elections? The ones that said no thanks had an LDS charter. Keep track of units that attend roundtable? Big fat zeroes next to attendance at the units that were registered to an LDS church. Doing pre-registration for camporee? Again, sort by chartering org and see that none of the LDS units were coming.
It wasn’t like we didn’t try. Phone calls, emails, snail mail to the scoutmaster, committee chair, COR, and the ward and stake presidents all met with silence. They were just not interested. We spent years trying to get them involved. After a while we just said it’s better to focus our limited time on the units that actually want to be involved.
So the liberal Mormons want to sever the relationship with the BSA because their own troops are too Mormony, or not scouty enough, and the conservatives want to sever the relationship because the the BSA is no longer Mormony enough?
Who’s left?
Also, what’s the Catholic Church’s reaction to this? When I was a kid I was roped into the BSA through the local parish where I went to school. They must have some position on gay scouts.
Missionary?
I am so going to Hell.
From my experience with LDS scouting, this doesn’t surprise me at all.
Reading more posts on the subject, it looks like people are guessing that the major concern is the legal liability to the local troops for discrimination in states such as New Jersey and California which have broader anti-discrimination laws.
Their position seems to be that they are fine with this new policy, which is what I expected. As a general rule, the Catholic church doesn’t ban youth or adults from any other activity or organization simply because of their sexual orientation and the new policy doesn’t force charter organizations to accept gay leaders - it simply allows them to.
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They’re tied in knots.
:: Scouting rimshot ::
Well done!
In an editorial he Salt Lake Tribune has called for the three BSA councils in Utah to share their scout camps with the LDS church if the split happens.
Various Mormon related blogs and forums are reporting that “anti-gay” rhetoric after the SCOTUS ruling and then this has been very strong in Mormon churches. After the SCOTUS ruling, the LDS church issued a letter to be read in all the congregations reaffirming the church position against SSM.
When I first heard about the whinny press release, I had assumed that they were just being sore losers, but with scouting being such an integral part of the Mormon culture for so long, I really didn’t think they would actually walk away. It looks like it could happen.
The Mormon church has a stronger theological basis for its anti-gay stance than simply the Bible. Modern scripture and doctrine more clearly set out a case for the eternal nature of people, which the current leadership is stating relates to gender as well as sexual preference. Since Mormons get their own worlds in the afterlife, and have to populate them, there isn’t a place for SSM in heaven.
Unfortunately, it looks like the Mormon leadership is doubling down on this issue, so a split may very well occur.
I’ve never been a Scout or know anyone who was. What exactly do you do as a Scout? Is it like being in the National Guard where they can call you up at any time to go do “scouting” things? All I know of Scouts is what I see on TV and on TV they’re always off hiking somewhere or building a campfire and camping or rafting.
So in a typical day, do you meet with your Scout Leader and he decides where to go, like “Let’s all pile into my Chevy and go for a walk in the woods for a few hours!” Or does he say to the parents he’ll take them of somewhere to spend overnight in the woods and that’s it? Do they all meet up at a civic center one weekend and just braid a thousand foot rope into all sorts of knots? What is the time like between the actual camping and the hiking?
Its more like belonging to a hobbyist club. You meet periodically (monthly, I think, when I was a kid) and have occasional outings for camping or whatever.
I’s pretty much as far as can be from the National Guard, and no you’re not on call.
My Troop:
Monday night meetings. At these the Patrols meet (groups of 5-15 boys) and practice various skills (First Aid, Outdoor stuff). Scouts also plan upcoming campouts, and also discuss what went right and what went wrong at recent events.
Service: Monthly there is a chance for providing service. This can be food drives, building things for various charities (we make a lot of shelves, etc. for the local schools and animal shelters), flag ceremonies (Memorial Day, Opening day for Little League), etc.
Campouts: We go camping every month. That requires the boys buying their food, choosing a location, and me getting enough drivers.
Merit Badge meetings with counselors: There are over 100 merit badges across a huge spectrum, and boys are regularly meeting with counselors to show proficiency and earn the badges.
Advancement: The Eagle rank is one of the most recognizable achievements in youth activities (for better or worse). So at any given time a boy is working towards their next rank which requires showing the skill, showing various levels of responsibility, and then going before a Board of Review.
Thanks for the details. A couple more questions if you can:
So do kids have to get additional permission to do something like camping? Like, when you’re in school, its not automatic that kids get to do everything they are offered in school, some things require additional permission slips and things like that. When a kid is in the Scouts and you have a campout planned, do you have to get permission from the parent to do that or is it just “Campout day is tomorrow, don’t expect your kids back until the following day!”
So with merit badges, I’m sure some of them are fairly easy and some require some training. Since the Scouts was formed a hundred years ago, do you ever just get kids joining who know how to do a ton of things already and they just spend a few hours in a room with a Scout recordkeeper tying knots and stuff and walking out with like 20 merit badges?
Is it pretty much whatever the Scout Leader decides? “We’re going to build shelves today and either you participate or go home” or do Scout Leaders typically have activities planned and the kids get to choose, like maybe they all vote to help animals one day when you would rather they, I dunno, learn about wild herbs or something
I haven’t read up on what all the merit badges are for but what would you say a typically untrained person can do with little training? Can I just walk in and probably qualify for a dozen badges? 50?
If you join Scouting without going camping, you will never advance. Camping is required - it is part of the program. The permission slips we use are based on medical treatment only. Parents drop off their kids for meetings, they drop them off on Friday for the Campout and pick them up on Sunday typically.
For activities - we do what can to be boy led - so they are based on the activities chosen by the PLC - the Patrol Leaders Council. This is the leader of each Patrol, plus the Troop elected Senior Patrol Leader.
The merit badges: Merit Badges | Boy Scouts of America
There are a few boys that have the knowledge and skills, and just need to meet with a merit badge counselor to earn them.
It seems I may have woefully overestimated my meritable abilities…
Yeah, the BSA offers a pretty impressive array of merit badges. I’m a counselor for the three Citizenship merit badges (Community, Nation and World), American Heritage, and Law.
Some Scouting Troops are adult-led, some are boy-led. Common is for a meeting of leaders each 6 months to plan activities for the next 6 months. When it is boy-led, they choose activities and locations and the leaders chime in with “how are you going to earn the money for that?” and “remember to get approvals and book venues”, etc.
Monday’s weekly meeting (we do that too, but frequency is up to your Troop), monthly campouts, etc. are not required to be attended. You don’t get kicked out. It’s just that - you joined, so don’t you want to participate? Any activity can have parents who push their boy into it, but it is really hard to make it work if the boy isn’t interested. You do need minimum levels of activity to advance. E.g. you have to attend two campouts before you can go to a big summer camp in another state. And you have to have 6 months of troop activity to get your next rank. But nobody ends up attending everything.
A common situation is that the boy is growing into his teen years and suddenly finds band, athletics, after school jobs, and girls. They reduce activity because of other obligations. This is particularly true for 16-18 year olds advancing to Eagle Scout. They realize their 18th year is approaching and they’ve been off doing other things so they have to scramble to finish the Eagle requirements. Many badges have classwork that can be done in a day and then require some project or activity that has to be completed over time.
This is all to say that a Scout Troop is an addition to your life and doesn’t have to take it over (Ha! Oh, was that out loud?). Some troops are more academic, some are more camping oriented. Boys need to find one that fits their tastes. My older son has his Eagle requirements and will have his ceremony in September. My middle son has autism and MR and we’ve been advancing him at his rate. He’s at the same level as others just joining and who are 4 years younger than him. And they’ll pass him in rank and merit badges. But that’s okay. He’s having fun, learning new things, and the troop supports and loves him. My daughter is in Girl Scouts, they camp alot too, and want to do more things the boys get to do.
I’ll chime in as another former Scout; basically it’s another kid activity, much like Little League or any other non-school related activity.
In large part, the whole thing revolves around camping and other outdoor activities, and to a lesser extent about the achievement of merit badges, which require a combination of academic study and practice, and about the achievement of ranks, which are more centered around leadership and service qualifications, although they usually have merit badge requirements as well.
But most boys join for the camping and stuff like that; nobody I know would have had a thing to do with it if not for the camping, pyromania, pine-cone wars with other troops, etc… It certainly wasn’t the “dashing” cut of the uniforms!