Brasil 2014

I am sick and tired of being an England fan, and it has begun to occur to me that I don’t have to be one anymore now that I don’t live there. At least the 1986, 1990 and 1998 teams had the decency to go out on bad luck and/or inability to beat the Germans. The last three-odd teams never looked competitive at all and were lucky to advance from their groups each time (though I give the 2006 squad a pass because of the Owen injury.)

Giggs and Best go into the same category as Jari Litmanen and George Weah: great players who played for countries that never had a chance of qualification. di Stefano played for Argentina and Spain*, so by rights he “should” have played in at least one WC.

*Not sure how competitive Spain were back then.

Yes, but with them it’s a little different, in my opinion - they had the misfortune of being citizens of countries whose teams typically aren’t good enough to make it to the World Cup. Alfredo di Stéfano’s country (Argentina) is certainly good enough to qualify for the World Cup on a consistent basis but through other misfortunes he was never able to participate.

I’m with you on this. D.A.M. might very well have been the world’s best soccer player in the 20th century (although I, for one, would never rank him quite that high on the list) but his personality is so odious to me that I can only ever think of him in negative terms. Even though I’ve never been a fan of Argentina’s team (due in no small part to the fact that HE’s from that country) I was disappointed that the AFA hired that slime as his national team’s manager before South Africa 2010, if only because the fewer times that scoundrel appears on my television screen, the better. Hopefully, for their sake, they’ve learned their lesson and will leave whatever “heroics” he once performed for La Albiceleste in the past, where they belong.

In fairness, it was a bit of a stroke of luck (for the Brasilians…misfortune for the English) that knocked them out in 2002, although I always thought Brasil’s was the better team, anyway.

Precisely.

I’m not 100% sure how competitive the Spanish were back in di Stéfano’s day, either. But I think the general feeling is that the Spanish have ALWAYS had good talent which is what made it so frustrating for fans of La Furia Roja to see their team eliminated at the quarterfinal stage (or earlier) for so many tournaments in a row. What I am pretty sure of is that Spain’s team WAS present at World Cups during di Stéfano’s time, unlike the national teams of the players you mentioned: Giggs, Best, Litmanen, and Weah.

I don’t know about Brasil being lucky in 2002. The second goal was lucky, but they were the better side in the second half even with one less player.

di Stefano played for Spain from 1957 to 1961. They failed to qualify for the 1958 WC and he missed 1962 because of injury. Seems he missed the WCs during his tenure with Argentina because they were boycotting or something.

I just rewatched highlights from that game, and I’d say that the “luckiest” goal was England’s… it was a ball that should have been fairly routinely handled by the Brazilian defender who just totally mishit it, leading to an easy goal.

(Or is there some other aspect of that game that people are talking about?)

No question about it. I was still recording World Cup matches back then and I watched - and re-watched - that one very intently after the point Ronaldinho was sent off. IIRC England got exactly TWO shots off on goal after that, neither of them especially troubling to Marcos. I know the English get a bunch of potshots (probably deservedly) for having produced so few memorable tournament runs (either WC or EC) but for a team to hold a team like the English one to two relatively harmless shots on goal for 30-odd minutes after having a player ejected says a lot, if you ask me.

I couldn’t remember for sure. In fairness it was quite a bit more difficult to qualify for the World Cup back in those days, even for the stronger teams. As for Argentina’s team - I’ve read that the Argentines were “frightened to death” of what could happen after seeing the emotional devastation in Brasil after the “Marcanazo” in 1950 so, yeah, they chose not to participate for a few WCs. And when they returned they got thrashed, I believe by the Czechs, to the tune of 1 - 6 which didn’t do much to increase their desire to participate in those tournaments back then.

Yeah, England’s goal was a gift. I won’t argue that. The best goal of that match, by far, is Brasil’s tying one but if you notice the chance came about only because David Beckham avoided contact on the sideline before the Brasilians began their move (D.B. had been injured very badly by a bastard Argentine just a few weeks before that WC and IIRC recovered to participate in it only just in time. Clearly, from a psychological standpoint he hadn’t yet recovered fully from the foul).

Pretty much the worst time zone possible for Aussies, games are 2am to 8am. Watching on replay loses a bit of oomph if you are not a soccer tragic.

It’s a fair point you have both made, though I would dispute putting Litmanen and Weah in the same category as Giggs and Best in terms of their overall class (and certainly their achievements at club level).

… really? Giggs is unquestionably one of the best players in the history of the Premier League but he’s never been in the “best in the world” argument. He’s only got one significant individual award outside the UK. AFAICT, his only real claim to fame in Europe is that he’s played in the most CL matches of any player.

Best and Weah won Ballon d’Or/European Player of the Year awards. They’re both in the FIFA 100. Weah won a World Player of the Year award and was the runner up the next year.

I thought Litmanen had a Ballon d’Or too but he finished third, and he’s not in the FIFA 100. So I’ll give you one for him.

I don’t know: Weah won the Balloon d’Or and FIFA World Player of the Year, two Scudettos and finished as a runner-up in the Champions League as also the top scorer in the Champions League. Litamen played in two Champions League finals, winning once (the same year that George Weah was on the losing side) and scoring in the other and finishing as the top scorer in the Champions League.

If I’m honest I think Giggs was better than Litamen and Weah, but not in a different category. Best was better than Giggs, Litamen and Weah

In World Cup news, many teams have started their warm-up schedules.

USA beat a depleted Azerbaijan side 2-0, which will hardly shake their group opponents, but which isn’t a terrible result against a team that is pretty adept at limiting it’s opponents attacking chances. France easily beat Norway 4-0, Japan dominated against Cyprus but could only get a single goal to win 1-0, Russia beat Slovakia 1-0, Belgium thrashed Luxembourg 5-1, Cameron beat Macedonia 2-0, Australia were held 1-1 by South Africa and Iran were held 0-0 by Montenegro.

It’s only 15 days and 25 minutes until the World Cup kicks off. I brought my shirt to watch the games in today (a replica of the England World Cup 1990 shirt). I’m getting very excited.

If I were to wear any shirt for that purpose it would be Brasil’s, but I don’t like yellow. I do have a blue Brasil shirt, though…

Fair enough, happy to agree with you both here and bow to your superior knowledge!

Anyone got involved in any sweepstakes? I lucked out in my office with Spain, unquestionably a better than average pick, but I agree Brazil will be tough to beat at home. Germany and Holland seem to be struggling a bit with injuries. Is ti me or is it quite unusual to have no strong bookies favourite coming into the tournament?

The Dutch don’t seem to think much of their chances after they lost that one player a few weeks back (I don’t remember his name since I don’t follow club football very closely but apparently he’s considered one of the best Dutch players right now and the injury was such that he was already being declared out of the World Cup even though that injury occurred several months ago, now). The Germans (and many who LOVE the German team but who aren’t German, themselves) I’m sure have high expectations but I don’t think they’ll get quite as far as they probably think they will. Spain’s not a bad bet but winning four straight major tournaments might be asking too much. I still think the teams with the best chance are the hosts’ and their neighbors, their archrivals wearing the sky blue and white shirts and the black shorts. Wouldn’t it be something if the Final came down to those two teams?

One thing I will say is that parity among national teams worldwide has tightened. Obviously the top favorites remain a small handful of nations from Europe and South America, but I’m impressed with how well many squads from the more denigrated regions and nations have held their own against the big powers in recent years.

Anyway, I think there is no overwhelmingly obvious single favorite because so many international teams are very good, including some that have gotten a lot better only recently, relatively speaking. Heck, people forget that Spain was mediocre, or even dire, for a long time, and have only won the World Cup the one time in 2010; their previous best finish being 4th in 1950.

In a nutshell: more of the usual best teams are in form at the same time, and more of the developing teams have gotten rather good, than in most past years. I expect a very exciting competition. However, the balance among the groups is dreadfully poor. There could be some strange outcomes.

But we can count most of the usual powers doing well and probably one of them winning it all, from among Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Italy, etc. Among the traditional powers, I don’t see England, Netherlands, or France doing especially well this year, but of course you never know what will happen once we get to single elimination games. Any of them could surprise me.

We can also probably count on at least one dark horse (such as South Korea and Turkey in 2002, when they battled it out for third place) getting much further than anyone is likely to have predicted. I’d pick Nigeria a likely choice for that this year, or Team USA is we can manage to survive the group, no small task.

We can also usually count on one of the traditionally stronger teams to have a horrible World Cup and crash out in the group stage, like France in 2010 (and 2002). I doubt France will struggle quite that badly this year, though. My choices for most likely to be in this category are Portugal or Uruguay. England hasn’t filled me with enormous confidence, but I always cheer for them and hope for the best. I only say Portugal because I’m being very hopeful (“hope is good stuff”) that the USA can get past them. Most people will have Portugal advancing.

Group A. Brazil is the clear favorite to move forward. Among the others (Mexico, Cameroon, Croatia), it’s a tough call. If Mexico have their act together (unlike in qualifying), I would expect them to have a chance to move forward as well, but that’s a big if. Otherwise Cameroon, if Samuel Eto’o is in form. Croatia have Mario Mandžukić but he won’t be enough. I’m going with Brazil and Cameroon to advance.

Group B. Spain and Netherlands are the clear obvious choices to move forward. Chile might threaten, but only if the Netherlands are one of possible choices for “usually good team that stinks this year,” but my guess is they will be better than they were in Euro 2012, when they were in the “Group of death,” seeing as they were dominant in qualifying. Australia will be fortunate to get through with a record better than 0-3. Spain is weaker than 2010, but not so weak they won’t go pretty far. Probably a boring group.

Group C. Columbia, Greece, Ivory Coast, Japan. I think Ivory Coast might be a good choice for the dark horse that gets further than expected, and most likely to advance. Who knows among the others? Japan are a disciplined side and better than most people think, but Columbia have talented players, and are highly ranked by FIFA (too highly). However, they haven’t qualified since 1998 and haven’t gotten out of the group stage since 1990. The experience just isn’t there. Greece could advance, but have the experience problem, despite a decent showing in Euro 2012. These matches could be very exciting, but neither of the two teams that advance from this group will be likely to be favored to get past the next round. Beyond Ivory Coast I just don’t know who to pick.

Group D. One of the more brutal groups. Costa Rica will be eliminated in all likelihood. Between Italy, England, and Uruguay it’s a very tough call. Unless Suarez is injured, in which case England and Italy will probably move forward. No Theo Walcott hurts England, but they have more depth this year than recently, in my opinion, even though they weren’t super impressive in qualifying. You can never write off Italy. My guess is England and Italy will advance even if Suarez is healthy, but it will be a battle. An exciting group!

Group E. France will advance and they should win this group. I don’t see them having two shitty World Cups in a row, despite some very shaky moments in qualifying; although they faced a playoff against Ukraine to qualify, they did beat Netherlands in a friendly earlier this year, 2-0. Honduras will probably lose the group. Between Ecuador and Switzerland: Switzerland won their group in qualifying, but it was a very weak group. Nonetheless Ecuador are not very impressive. France and Switzerland should advance. Could be exciting.

Group F. Argentina will probably dominate this group in way that will be fun to watch only if you support Argentina. Bosnia & Herzegovina, Iran, Nigeria: who to pick? I’ll go with Nigeria, since they did win the 2013 African Cup of Nations. Although Bosnia etc. have Edin Džeko in very fine form playing for Manchester City FC, who won the Premiere League title this year, I think they will come in third. Iran will lose the group. If Nigeria advance, they’re a good choice to advance further than anyone might have expected.

Group G. “The Group of Death.” Ridiculously stacked group, with the lowest total FIFA ranking (by which I mean toughest) of any of the groups. Team USA will be lucky to move forward, but I think it’s possible. Portugal has little attacking depth beyond their superstar Ronaldo, but they have a stout, experienced, if somewhat aged defense. Germany will move forward, but they’ll have to earn it. Ghana has been the USA’s nemesis in recent years, but I think will probably lose the group, which is a real shame, seeing as how thin some of the other groups are. Team USA advances if they can manage to do no worse than tie Germany (and did beat them in a friendly earlier this year), neutralize Ronaldo, and finally beat Ghana who is really not quite as talented overall, in my opinion. This is a very exciting group. Most people will pick Germany and Portugal to advance, but I’m going with Germany and USA.

Group H. Belgium is better than people realize, I expect them to move forward. South Korea seems weak, but they are very disciplined and often do a lot better than expected. Better enough to beat Russia? I doubt it. Algeria will accomplish nothing.

Talk is cheap. Bring on the World Cup!

That friendly (which was in June of last year, incidentally) isn’t really instructive, though. The Germans were missing everybody from Bayern and BVB, plus Ozil and Khedira, so basically their entire starting XI. It was the C-team at best. Hard to take much from it.

They do have injury concerns, though, particularly at defensive midfield. Lars Bender was just ruled out, and Sami Khedira is still returning to fitness after an ACL injury and frankly looked like crap in the CL final. Schweinsteiger has been either injured or rubbish the whole year. I’m assuming he’ll start, because Jogi Loew sticks with veteran starters long past their sell-by date, but I’m not sure he should. If he’s paired with Kroos it’ll be a very slow defensive midfield. Lahm has done quite well at DM for Bayern this year and he may play there, but he’s also sorely needed at RB. And he’s recovering from injury, too. I don’t know what Loew will do.

I think that Brazil can be considered a heavy favorite and +250 to win it all. They were +280 just 2 days ago, but I waited too long to place my rather large “investment” in them. I should have done it when Neymar emerged uninjured from the La Liga and UCL seasons. Here are the payoffs for a $100 bet to win the tournament at my book:

Brazil +250
Argentina +400
Germany +500
Spain +600
Belgium +1300
France +1800
Colombia +2000
Italy +2200
England +2500
Netherlands +2500
Uruguay +2500
Portugal +3000
Chile +4000
Russia +5000
Switzerland +9000
Ivory Coast +10000

Everyone else including the US at +12500 is above +10000