Sounds like a good technique. Not sure if I have the same definition of g-e-n-t-l-y as you do but it sure sounds like a kiddie version of "you’ll be sleeping with the fishes if you mess with my stuff
".
Yes this is typical behavior that a 3 year old will TRY to get away with. If that little bundle of joy started playing with an antique item I would probably yell loud enough to get the parents attention. NOOOOOOO!!! If the parents think you’re too much of a hardass then they won’t bother you anymore.
Another vote for brat. And I agree that you should set some groundrules for your house.
This reminds me a lot of my cousin’s kids. My cousin decided when she had kids that she wouldn’t discipline them - instead, she would explain to them why what they did was wrong and expect them to learn to reason out their own behavior. So, instead of there ever being consequences for misbehavior, the children would just get a quiet, unthreatening talk. Which is why, even at 11 years old, my cousin’s youngest daughter was still eating out of a plastic bowl like a baby or a dog. You see, she had this unfortunate habit of throwing her dishes at her brother’s head when he wouldn’t do something for her. In response, the brother would calmly walk over and belt her as hard as he could, which was quite hard by the time he was 12. Fortunately, their school teacher has broken them of the habit, as has the nanny my cousin was eventually forced to hire in order to discipline her two youngest. I think it’s dispicable that she can’t handle her own children, and instead chooses to play tennis all day (she’s a stay-at-home mom and doesn’t work) while the nanny, or “live-in,” cleans the house, runs the errands, goes to the parent-teacher events for my cousin, and takes care of her children. I must say that the woman has worked wonders for those kids - last year was the first year those kids have ever been permitted to sit at the table when company was over. They ate of regular china just like everyone else, and were able to refrain from beating each other senseless the whole time.
I still haven’t figured out how the eldest child turned out so well. She’s a little arrogant, but most 17-year-olds are to some extent, in my humble opinion, of course.
I vote for the “My house, my rules” approach.
My nieces and nephews are darling children, but my furniture is for sitting, not for climbing and standing and jumping. I have no problem telling them to get down.
Next time the child interrupts while you’re talking, tell her to wait a minute, then finish your conversation with her parents.
There’s no reason to be afraid you’re going to piss off her parents. It’s not like you’re going to lay the child over your knee and spank her in front of them. And if her parents do get offended with your mild discipline, do you really want to be friends with them? Especially if it’s going to cause stress every time they visit?
Perhaps secret Santa should give the little dear a roll of duct tape for Christmas.
I wouldn’t tolerate that behavior from my own kids. Damn spineless parents.
I agree with dangermom; this little girl may be displaying bratty behavior but it is because she has never known otherwise. I also agree that all kids are born with the all-about-me attitude; sharing and taking turns usually comes at around age 3.
As a preschool teacher I deal with some parents who just can’t seem to say no.
These people are not doing their kids any favors.
We end up civilizing these little kids.
We do not need to battle or negotiate over every little thing, but a three year old should have more self control.
It was interesting reading overlyverbose’s story. I have had something similar happen with a relative who was far too indulgent with his little darlings.
I had the My House My Rules stand-off with his kids (it is much harder than it sounds, at least with blood relatives) and we did have a brief falling out. Since then I have been proven correct but it I don’t have that triumphant I Told You So attitude–mostly it’s just a bit sad.
Nobody needs to spank or yell. But kids want and need boundaries.
I’m a teacher (not a parent).
I agree that children need love and security. They also soon learn what works and what doesn’t. So it’s good to fuss over a young child when it does something good, and very risky to reinforce attention-seeking behaviour.
There was a wonderful program recently on BBC TV, in which parents with ‘difficult’ children were given advice by an expert using remote controlled cameras and earpieces. They covered everything from screaming through sibling rivalry to shopping trips.
There was a hugely emotional moment in which two well-meaning parents were shown footage of how they currently behaved with their ‘brat’. Basically they didn’t realise that they never praised him for being lovable and yet rushed over to give him their full attention whenever he started playing up. Both parents started crying ,because they realised their child just wanted to be loved and was using the behaviour that worked.
So after a week of careful reacting, they had not only a much better-behaved child, but also got more joy from their cuddles and quality time together.
I also have neighbours, so know you need to be very careful in giving them advice!
She’s probably just a “normal” three year old who has been allowed to run amuk, or at least that’s the way it sounds. That is more the fault of the parents not doing their job, imho. The “laissez-faire” version of raising kids leaves a -lot- to be desired! Once I was riding the bus and seated across from a woman with a 2-3 year old boy. The boy started whining and crying about something and the mother just -ignored- him. Completely ignored it, which only caused the child to get louder and louder. By the time mother and child finally got off the bus, I had a pounding headache and to be honest, I felt like applauding.
DMark, I do wish you luck in trying to talk to the parents about this, because it definitely won’t be easy. One thing you can try in the meantime is to make any in-home invitations to the parents only. (I almost wrote adults only … but decided that would give the wrong connotation! ;)) At any rate, good luck, and yeah, if you -do- find a good way of explaining their parental faux-pas to her parents, please do share it with us here!
I take it that you don’t mean normal shrieking and yelling–the type of rowdiness that kids get into when they play–when you talk about screaming.
I think that should be stopped NOW. We were NOT allowed to scream like that when we were playing. The reason? They didn’t like having the life scared out of them, thinking one of us was injured, and running out to see who was bleeding, only to find out, “We were just screaming!” Good way to get yourself stuck in the house, that was! As they told us, “We need to know if you’re hurt, and if you scream like that all the time, and then really DO get hurt, how would we know for sure?” And yes, phony screams can sound just like “I’m hurt” screams.
Another vote for “brat,” but only because they’ve allowed her to become one.
Well that’s one of the things that the book I was talking about in post 12 recommended for temper tantrums… there were also sections on “Whining” and “Wanting their own way”. Note that ignoring the toddler isn’t the only thing they mention, and they also say “Get professional help if your child has more than two to three temper tantrums per day”. It’s unfortunate that that approach doesn’t immediately shut up kids in public, but if parents use those techniques consistently it should make the kid want to not throw tantrums - not out of fear but because they believe it isn’t very desireable/useful. BTW, even if the woman didn’t ignore the whining and crying it doesn’t guarantee that it would stop sooner. Sometimes the toddler argues back then the mother might start shouting and threaten things like a spanking or abandonment, then the kid might be begging loudly for mercy, etc. Or the self-esteem/sense of independence of the toddler could get damaged a bit… but anyway, I understand people on a bus who just want the kid to shut up asap…
Maybe for Christmas you could get them a DVD/video set or a book with a lot of different stuff in it, and one of those things happens to be on parenting. That way they’d get parenting instructions without being offended. I’m not sure if you’d be able to find something that fits that description. Maybe a Chicken Soup book or something.
[QUOTE=DMark]
Maybe I’m evil, but if I heard a kid screaming like that on a consistant basis, I’d call CPS or the police and say I think something is wrong at that house. I’ll bet when the cops pull up to investigate, the neighbors will learn to keep their little screamer indoors. (assuming one could do that anonymously and it wouldn’t start a war)
I would say this child has been very well trained. She knows how to get what she wants, and uses what she knows. That’s a child for ya. I don’t think the child’s a brat, but I don’t think the parents are good parents. They have taught her that negative behavior will get her positive attention, and that’s a dangerous thing for a child that age to learn, because the behavior will get more and more obnoxious as she gets older.
NOT a thing girls go through. I have a girl. I would not have that kind of behavior, not for a moment. Never. And I was not a spanker or strict disciplinarian.
The parents are wimps.
With all due respect to Algul Siento et al, it is not your place to tell your neighbors how to parent.
All you can to is enforce the politeness rules in your own home. Maybe once the parents stop getting invited places, they’ll get the hint.
I just remembered a story that a friend told me a few years ago:
When this woman was a child, her sister had taken up throwing huge tantrums to get her way (this isn’t a small child I’m talking about–one about nine years old). Her mom was doing the “ignore her and she’ll stop” treatment, which, so far, hadn’t worked. One day the girls were staying with Grandma. Grandma didn’t have running HOT water–only very cold–so when she did dishes, she heated water on the stove. Well, Miss Priss, for whatever reason, threw herself to the floor and had a full-scale tantrum. Grandma picked up the pot of water she’d just set on the stove to heat (remember, this water is COLD) and doused her with it.
It took her a few seconds to catch her breath–but she never threw another tantrum–at least not for Grandma!
(I’ve found that a water gun does wonders to get my children’s attention–a squirt or two to the back of the head or between the shoulder blades is hard to ignore! :))
Like my earlier quote said, books that support that approach also use many other techniques in combination with that when dealing with tantrums… just because ignoring the tantrum mightn’t work it doesn’t mean that more complex methods that rely partly on ignoring the tantrum are also are useless.
I’m not sure how good that parenting technique is as far as the effect on the kid’s long-term personality development, etc. But when my Mum sometimes wets me with water to get my attention it sure is annoying. 
But there is something about the craziness of the act which makes it hard for me to get too worked up about…
Thank you all for your comments and suggestions, although other than trying to lay down some basic rules in my house, it doesn’t sound like I have many options.
The neighbors are currently in Europe and we are sort-of house-sitting (we get their mail and have a key and their security alarm code in case anything happens while they are gone.)
The parents are basically very nice people, in the entertainment industry. The husband has two kids from a previous marriage who live in Europe with the mother. They seem ok kids (one is about 12 the other about 10) but the 3 year old was even driving the two other kids crazy while they were visiting recently. I heard them both tell the little girl to “shut up” while they were playing in the backyard and she went off on one of her screaming jags. The boy got some toy for his birthday, the little girl insisted on playing with it (even though he had barely got it out of the package) and 5 minutes later the parents caved and said, “let her play with it for awhile.” To the young boy’s credit, he let her play with it and as to be expected, when nobody was paying any attention she lost interest and quit playing with it 2 minutes later.
I donno…maybe I have seen the film “The Bad Seed” too many times, but this kid is one hell of a challenge. But if the screaming (and follow up of dogs barking) continues this coming summer, we will have to have a little heart to heart with the parents. Not looking forward to that, but I’ll be damned if I let a 3 year old ruin my summer in the backyard.
Don’t you watch Dr. Phil? He says they know exactly what they are doing, and if the parents don’t learn to be consistant, and less indulgent, she will grow up to be a bank robber, murderer or worse.
Seriously, she is old enough to understand that her behavior gets her what she wants, It may get quieter as time goes on, but it will not get better, until the parents learn that they are the grown-ups and can overpower a 3 year old, if need be.
I’m not very tolerant of children in general. Being very outspoken (read rude at times) I would straightforwardly tell the parents they were welcome in my home, but they could not bring their pet until she’s house trained.
For a three year old, this behavior is completely in the “normal” spectrum. Three year olds can be real jerks sometimes and it’s very hard for parents to decide whether or not it’s worth it to make a scene in front of others or to just hope the behavior doesn’t get any worse. IMHO, a typical three year old = a brat.