In my humble opinion, we should be less reliant on our prisons and jails, and bring back the whip or cane for corrective measure. The number of lashes being proportional with the severity of the crime and number of past misdeeds. Perhaps some incarceration during convalescence would be in order. Miscreants would bear their scars on their butts. I believe swift and painful punishment is far more efective than incarceration over several years, which can only damage the psyche. Furthermore. whipping is far less costly and therefore much more likely to be carried out to the full extent as ordered by the judge.
…I suppose a lot of people think that way.
I am opposed to torture, which is what whipping and caning are. I’m also opposed to the death penalty (and FWIW, for imprisoning people for nonviolent drug offenses).
However, I have no problem with hard labor and chain gangs. And I’m totally opposed to allowing prisoners to lift weights. Physical fitness is one thing, but financing a felon making himself even more threatening makes no sense at all.
Anyone else have their favorite draconian measures?
Whipping and caning might be unConstitutional-you know, that whole cruel and unusual punishment thing.
Besides, they did cane that one kid, Michael Fay in Singapore. And five years later he was in trouble again!
As for cruel and unusual, 5 years incarceration followed by a criminal record will destroy most people.I don’t see caning as torture. At least you know what is ahead of you, and you are aware of the outcome. In a few days, you can get on with the rest of your life.
Mr. Fay left Singapore following incarceration. Therefore the deterrant effect is no longer valid in his case.
You also mention it as a substitute for several years imprisonment. So you must mean quite serious crimes like GBH or armed robbery even. I don’t think the current system is great but I cannot see how whipping people will be a good deterrent.
I was caned in school as a child (about 12). It hurt a lot and made me cry. Did I learn a lesson? Yes, try not to get caught the next time. It also increased my hatred of the teacher that did it.
Not to mention, how would it stop people from killing others?
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I was caned in school as a child (about 12). It hurt a lot and made me cry. Did I learn a lesson? Yes, try not to get caught the next time. It also increased my hatred of the teacher that did it.
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But yojimbo, did you repeat the offense? Or, how much time in prison would be justified to deter you?
Also yojimbo with regard to your hatred of the teacher, I can truly understand. I was slapped across the face in front of the whole grade seven class by a Miss Scott about 40 years ago. If I ever see her again, lying down in the middle of the street, I would not help her out. But I have no hatred for the principal who administered the strap to me several times, which was far more painful and certainly gave me a healthy respect for school authority.
It didn’t stop me doing anything. I just pissed me off. I’ve just previewed so will answer you learning a * "healthy respect for school authority*. I could never respect any authority that would try by the means of pain to make me respect it. There is nothing to respect in inflicting pain on children.
Anyhoo back to the OP.
You are saying that whipping should replace some of the current systems of punishment. Please show me how this would be beneficial. I cannot see why whipping could be a better deterrent. The death penalty doesn’t seem to work so how can hurting people.
Think about a criminal who has had a hard life. All his life has been hard. Why would the possibility of a whipping make him say “I better watch myself here”. I just don’t see it.
I’ve said I don’t think that the present system is great but for it to replaced with another form of punishment I would want it proved that it is a superior form of deterrent.
A related question: Could you be the one to administer the punishment?
Executions today are fairly mechanized (flip a switch, push a button, etc.). Could you actually bring yourself to whip someone? Before you answer, remember that this isn’t swatting a little kids tail for misbehaving, this is laying someone’s skin open with a leather strap or cane.
As an aside, while doing some genealogical research I found the records of a court case involving one of great, great uncles. He was convicted of petit larceny (stole some boots and materials from a mine)in Culpeper County in 1870 and was sentenced to 50 lashes “to be laid on by the constable or his officer, after which he is to be released.”
To answer your questions, I am totally opposed to capital punishment. I cannot see any justification for taking of human life. However for more severe crimes such as murder and rape, I am for life in prison without parole to protect society.
Yes, If I was capable, I would have no difficulty in administering corporal punishment. I see no benefit from incarceration other than to keep a dangerous person away from society. If the purpose is to remove an offender for several years to protect society then the danger is only delayed and perhaps magnified due to the mental damage that occurs during incarceration.
Naturally in this day and age, rigorous standards and training could ensure a humane method for administering this punishment.
Singapore’s low rate of crime certainly attests to the effectiveness of caning. Anyone around here from Singapore?
I fully support castration for Child Molesters.
[Moderator Executioner’s Hood ON]
Sounds like this topic is cosmic enough for Great Debates, so it’s being transferred.
[Moderator Executioner’s Hood OFF]
Veb
Don’t bring up Singapore. Singapore has a low crime rate because it has a totalitarian government ruling over a cowered, frightened population. Not that good a trade-off.
Notice he didn’t do it in Singapore though:)
I have thought that caning would be a much better method of punishment for some crimes than prison and parole.
Car theft, and other non-violent acts of small theft would be my biggest candidate for caning.
I envision sort of a gradual increase in the caning that is appplied to the thief as they are convicted subsequent times. I would like it to accompany a short and miserable prison stay. (maybe a week in a cold dark dungeon eating gruel and drinking water) For the second offense you could go to two weeks and increase the amount of strokes with the cane.
So on and so on…
This would all be public in the town where the thief lives, and the prisoner would be released immediately afterwards. If they needed medical care, it would be provided and then they would be billed for it.
Of course I thought up this little system after having my car stolen…so I was a little bitter. I’m not quite certain I would actually endorse this plan, but I am pretty certain we would have less stolen cars. (I live in NJ)
…and if they caught the guy who took mine, I would have been willing to volunteer him as a test case:)
Have you considered facial branding?
Castration and branding, how lovely.
I’d hate to be wrongly imprisioned in your societies. At least if I was only sent to prison I’d have a chance at getting my life back.
It does happen you know.
I personally am in favour of corporal punishment for muggers and other petty offenders. It may sound heartless, and it probably is, but I am sick to death of reading about rising cases of petty crime, drug offences, auto thefts and the like. I put this rise down to two things, (although there may be others I believe these 2 to be the main ones)
Firstly I think that there are more offenders who are emulating those they see committing crimes.
Secondly those that do commit the crimes are not being punished enough, either they are let off with warnings too many times or they don’t view jail as much of a punishment.
In my view the first reason for the rise in petty thuggery stems from the second. The second is occurring more frequently because some mindless hooligans are being let back on to the streets too soon. I think that these people need a stronger, more physical demonstration of the power of justice as I believe that, for some, pain is a far more efficient and effective way of teaching a lesson than a jail term. I believe that those who would knock an old aged pensioner senseless for his pension money would be more intimidated by the threat of 100 lashes than the threat of jail time. You may think that this is heartless but I for one am sick of that tiny minority, those cretinous, thieving scum of our society who cause such hardship for those they can intimidate. If they don’t understand 3 months in jail then perhaps they will understand simple physical retribution. Perhaps that would force the point through their colons and into their brains.
The reason execution is currently worthless as a deterrent is that for a punishment to be effective it needs to be two things: Swift, and Sure.
How many executions have been carried out in the US over the last 20 years? a few hundred? And what is the median time between commission of the crime and execution of the sentence (or prisoner)? Long enough that there is no effective association of the punishment (an inconvenient and unfortunate lifestyle change, more often than any sort of true punishment) with the act that precipitated it.
For the moment, let’s pretend there is no government intervention in crime (not too far a stretch), and consider two scenarios in which you want to rob my house.
In the first scenario, I’m standing out front with a tee-ball bat, assuring you that any attempt to rob me will result in shattered kneecaps.
[sub]If you want to be a smart ass and say “oh, a bat? well I’ll bring a gun!” then replace “tee-ball” bat with “rifle aimed at your chest” and “shattered kneecaps” with “having an extremely large amount of tissue excavated from your ribcage”[/sub]
In the second, I’m standing out front empty-handed, assuring you that any attempt to rob me will be met with my deciding to maybe go out and buy a bat, then maybe after dinner if I feel like it, but definitely someday, maybe ten years down the road, I might rough you up a bit, unless you can talk me out of it first.
Now which situation would cause you to move on to rob another house?
I know a number criminals and former criminals who have led extremely hard lives. No matter how hard the lives, all of them will avoid behaviors that will result in swift and sure reprisals (example: kicking over a motorcycle belonging to a hell’s angel). The promise of a severe beating from a much bigger, meaner guy is most definitely a deterrent. Anybody who says physical punishment is not a deterrent either hasn’t experienced it properly or is deluded.
I won’t even mention my opinion that “it made me hate the person doing it and try harder not to get caught” is the argument of a spoiled brat used to getting his way, and resentful of the few sporadic and inconsistent attempts to introduce discipline and authority into his life.
Oops.
Anyway, if I can train a cat or dog not to piss on the carpet, I assure you any even reasonably intelligent human being can be trained not to steal, kill, etc through similar methods.
And as the OP stated, a few lashes are a lot cheaper to administer than a few years in prison, much less damaging to the psyche, and IMNot-SoHO, orders of magnitude more effective for crimes of lesser importance than murder or rape (which I feel should nearly always be punished with execution).
I also meant to add that lashes would not place a petty offender (thief, robber, first-time mugger, etc) into an environment that fosters their growing into bigger and better criminals (prison). They would take their lashes, receive any medical care necessary, and be released to continue their lives, with the caveat that repeat offenses will result in doubling the number of lashes.