Bringing intelligence to America

As for my ‘big’ post to bring the thread back to OP, I’ve had this sitting for quite a few days. I believe this generalizes the conceptual framework. I wanted to add more detail, so that I could specifically qualify everything in it; however, I want to submit this in light of the current exchange, and how it leads to the next logical set of questions in relation to the OP. So… I’m going to post a fragment of the big post; which I realized was already 6 MS word pages long…

Hopefully it will go through, and hopefully it will address itself as to why so much bandwidth has been taken; at least explain it to some degree…

-Justhink

I’ve taken pause to let my mind consider precisely
where it’s coming from. How I can summarize what it is that
I am communicating, without creating confusion above and
beyond curiosities for clarification that would engage this
conversation. Here is that attempt.

Counter-intelligence is observed rationally as a 

mechanism which ‘seeks’ to maintain cohesiveness through
mis-direction, falsehood, contradiction and omission.
Counter-intelligence is distinguished from intelligence as
being an expression which contradicts its own purpose for
being expressed; thus negating the entire existential
purpose and validity of the user.
Counter-intelligence is a state of delusion which
maintains cohesiveness of existential value.

Much like the "Messiah Complex" noted earlier; a 

proper definition of intelligence starves these systems of
delusion from an existentially positive reality; by allowing a
readily accessible and assessable means of use and
comprehension through the transparency which rationality
embodies.

In the instance of the "Messiah Complex"; the 

system is defeated by applying existentially positive burden
to the definition process, and ultimately, the properties
associated with the term. This allows one the ability to
discern a given term meaningfully in the sense that the
burden requires the term to have a valid/rational reason for
being distinguished as:
Not another synonym of everything and/or anything

For this specific example in regards to Messiah, it 

may help to see the process applied to something else,
before it is applied to intelligence.

Property of Messiah in order to have an existentially valid
reason to be conceptually discerned from anything else:
(Basically, a revised definition of Messiah that decrypts all
of the counter-intelligence routines that foster systems of
non-transparency used to execute abuse unaccountably.)

Messiah: Property of existence which perfectly copies and
transfers all of its abilities and conceptual framework to
operate and exercise those abilities, instantly, to any and/or
all who ask, regardless of their conceptual framework,
appearance or motive. Giving all ability to perform and
conceive, instantaneously; upon request; no questions asked.

What this definition of Messiah accomplishes is a rationalization
of what is worthy of recognition in terms of absolute truth and
potence. For a body to be imbued with the absolute and refuse
to instantly (is also all-powerful; follows from all-truthful) grant
a request for understanding, shows that this object of being is
lying or insanely absurd.
Either it cannot communicate to you instantaneously, which
renders it as impotent; thus ignorant, or it doesn’t care about
your request, in which case that truth itself is impotent: unless!
that truth is not communicated, which negates the absolute
value of existential purpose for even surviving, both of yourself
and the being in question; making the being insanely absurd
(if it’s not lying).

A strong definition illuminates instantly, whether an absolute state
or archetype is being rationally, existentially; positively observed.
If it is being observed, then the definition renders its power as
actually being redemptive of existence itself, by not excluding an
aspect of existence’s desire to know that truth itself; no
matter how much ignorance it may possess in relation to that truth.
Ignorance and absolute truth cannot occupy the same space.
To withhold absolute truth is to prove ignorance has existential value,
which renders the truth as negating the purpose of anything even
existing at all: A Messiah is charged with providing, through truth
and action, the inarguable understanding of existence rather than
non-existence. A false messiah will avoid being observed or
questioned in relation to themselves and the concept of
non-existence. They will heal, but not grant the ability to heal.
They will know, but speak in riddles and not grant the clear ability
to know. This behavior is inexcusable when the claim of
absolute value is brought up.

Messiah is called “Hero” in the extreme secular sense. Even in this
environment, the term ‘hero’ assumes a messianic inclination, so as
to use the same system without the absurdity of using the term
Messiah in a secular environment. Heroes are not conveyed as
having absolute power, yet their actions are implied as being
absolutely correct. It seeks to blur the line that is drawn to decrypt
these types of self-negating routines, by attempting to stack an
additional form of encryption; which allows us to believe in
absolutes without the strong evidence required. (i.e. “People who
don’t know everything are observed by everyone as doing all the
right things.”) It appeals to the sense of ego by both the
perpetrators and the subverted.

Another counter-intelligence routine that we see in modern
society dressed in different clothes from before
(like Hero and Messiah) is the idea of relativity; to confuse one about
the existence of rationality. To assert that rationality is characterized
by accepting that there is no such thing. With relativity we have this
idea of a messiah in Einstein; this omni-scient being of sorts, who
contributed the conceptual framework to actually create a tool of
potency.

It is suggested, that in order to understand this brilliant savior, exhibiting
phenomenal proof of his fitness to speak for truth, that one must realize:
“Everything is relative”; much like Plato and the Oracle of Delphi motif.
To not believe or understand this, is to absurdly deny that truth which
allowed the discovery to create and reproduce the ability to split the atom
and calculate the planetary orbits accurately enough to rendezvous with a
human created satellite traveling millions of miles in decades of time.
It is appeal to authority; through the confusion of ‘relativism’.

The only thing ‘relativism’ actually asserted is a truth which renders all of the
points of perspective within its purview as being ignorantly held in light of a
truth which settled opinion of the matter once and for all. ‘Relativity’, as
equated with nuclear physics these days, is simply another case in history
where vast commodities of opinion (and commodities whose foundations rest
on these opinions) have been collapsed. It’s to say: "You can hold this
opinion; however, it is now ignorant unless it is viewed through the
mechanism which collapsed all of the individual debates that gave this opinion
a commodity in the past.

What’s ironic, is that the theory Einstein submitted
(solved by someone else), doesn’t collapse many debates at all; just a few
scientific ones, many of which didn’t even last long enough to build a viably
entrenched commodity. Yet, society is led to believe that
“Everything is relative.”. If the ‘theory of relativity’ asserted anything, it
asserted once again that there is truth, and revealed once again that truth
collapses opinion. It continuously hints at, without stating: “Those who have
been surviving and thriving disingenuously off of
those opinions, can be detected with an efficient calculator programmed with
provable means.” It keeps hinting at a moral law which collapses the debates
of righteous opinion. Lot’s of people are subsisting solely on this resource, in
every class of society. The disenfranchised will naturally be more receptive
though.
Historically, the idea that there is a system which collapses
the opinions of morality, has received severe counter-intelligent resistance.
Many people are making a lot of money by cannibalizing their own existential
value, and not dying. It is not a miracle that they don’t die; they are simply
insanely absurd beings who are lying.

Back To The Topic Of Definitions

To illuminate this complexity before returning to intelligence, I want to return
to the discussion of defining in regards to ‘Messiah’.

Any discernible object which does not comply instantaneous transfer upon
request, is deemed as a perpetrator of fraud. The conclusion renders:

“Observation of this object is an absurd association with the commodity of
truth used to represent that term.”

It is to say that observation and truth are not associative in terms of the
properties used to discern the object and term from ‘anything at all’; as
opposed to simply defining it as: “Just another synonym for anything
and/or everything.”. Counter-intelligence encrypts terms that are
synonyms with “Everything and/or anything at all”, while defining it with
properties of distinction.

Counter-intelligent people don’t typically sit at a table with you, while you’re
both eating a cheese sandwich and say; “Don’t eat a cheese sandwich, or
you are not as good as me.”, as they take a bite from it themselves.

Some of these encryptions are literally this pathetic in terms of the obvious
contradiction conveyed. In the Messiah example, this encryption is slightly
more complex; yet transfers the same existential negation as the more
transparent cheese sandwich scenario.

It’s like telling someone you’re
going to kill them, and then letting them have a last word to convince you.
They do convince you, and you let them go. The very nature of the threat
however, revokes that persons right to trust who first made the threat.
The mere insanity of threatening to kill someone and the additional
insanity of contradicting ones own reason for a course of action, leaves
the person walking away, not knowing whether they’ll be killed by that
person or their orders, walking towards the door out or not, or even
assassinated at some future point by this individuals expressed will.
This persons word means nothing at all any more; really forever in that
sense. It is a compound contradiction representative of irrational beings.
It also is used to abuse others as a form of terrorism; and allows for the
centration of resource and capital.

To the degree that an individual or collective operates existentially, for a
reason that they deem absurd to relate upon request, negates their
existential rationality and proves suicide as the most rational expression
of their own belief of truth. This suicide must either be of the belief held
or the body which acts in accordance with the belief.

The attacks which ‘terrorize’ Western culture are the physical reflective
inverse of the psychological system that uses contradiction to cannibalize
ones existential value to receive resource. It is the same exact system
being used in this society to effect potence. ‘We’ are cannibalizing our
own existential validation (committing suicide) in order to maintain and
generate commodity be indenturing people to a metabolic resource.
Western society is terrorizing the indentured systems of others by
committing suicide for a reason other than being consistent with:
“I don’t believe in anything at all”. It is a counter-intelligent application
of rationality, and resultantly causes ignorant polarity; which has long
been collapsed by observation which has consolidated opinion on the
matter. This pressure against counter-intelligence is causing
counter-intelligent mechanisms to act more absurd and desperate.
The frequency of contradictions extracted from the primary contradiction
in media has increased substantially, to the point where media is not
embarrassed to talk precisely like a schizophrenic. Our own president
and staff talk like a schizophrenics, without the slightest bit of
acknowledgment or ‘shame’. It reveals panic IMO.

Using these types of systems (counter-intelligent) is the equivalent of
gaining attention and validating yourself by turning up your radio and
our music up to such an extreme volume that it resonates the entire
sensory framework of others in such a way as to disable their wills
until they give you the commodity of their presence and their immediate
focus. The resultant acts can always be validated, but ignoring it
causes the symbiot to starve to death; a withdrawal symptom of its
delusionary life-force eclipsed by rationality.

In terms of this ‘terrorism’ phenomenon, we are quite literally
screaming at our own reflection in a mirror; turned around.
We are too absurd to recognize that it is in fact ourselves we
are criticizing in an ignorant system of counter-intelligence that
has been identified and collapsed by rationality.

Our continued counter-intelligent stance in relation to ourselves
and the system reflecting it will only create more of the same.
Destroying a mirror does not destroy mirrors - reflection being
a property of nature; an embedded conceptual archetype required
for our existence and abstraction. In a system of simple reflection
and projection; there is no such thing as a victor, there is only the
idea which collapses the resource altogether, that has
existential validity.

I’m attempting to convey the necessary lines that need to be drawn
on the concept of reason itself, in order for this and all inverse
reflections to be recognized by us. I’m trying to articulate how to
behave intelligently and how to observe intelligent behavior.
I’m attempting to bring these tools, so that people are not
committing existential suicide to thrive phenomenally (it is irrational).
I am cataloging all of the minutiae of axioms of rationality, and bringing
to observation these axioms; showing eventually the isolation of an
algorithmic process which outputs only rationality, with an
instantaneous decryption process. This is what I understand myself
to be observing currently, and concur that I may myself be wholly or
partially delusional. In fact, not having wholly solved the formulation
which collapses delusion, one can suggest from this alone that I must
be delusional to some degree, if not wholly. In fact, the evidence
seems obvious for this, even if I’m correct:

I’m taking a long time to convey this conceptual framework for peer
review (peer = other human beings). It is big, cumbersome, somewhat
unexciting and not particularly efficient time wise or processing wise;
much like I imagine the first supercomputer was. Rather than being a
computer itself; this is a computational framework being assembled to
collapse the time wasted by squabbling opinions about morality; and
ultimately opinion itself. Applying it to computer language and
processing is a step in efficiency; rather than a step of validity for
these ideas.

Much of the suicide language in this thread is a result of how I have
come to observe a relevant mechanism embedded in the property of
intelligence, for it to have any meaning what-so-ever.

In the instance of the Messiah decryption routine, I used a mechanism
of potency to disable the counter-intelligent mechanism which can
emerge of it inherently by counter-intelligence siphoning the term
for resource.

To disable the ‘Messiah-like’ complex embedded in counter-intelligence
itself; the observation of suicide must be integrated to decrypt
mechanisms which negate existential value itself; at the source.
This is the strongest form of encryption; as it accesses the indentured
system at the primary level - by attacking rationality itself. Suicide,
conceptually, is the strongest existential decryption device known to
beings that abstract intelligence in the means that it’s commonly
defined and conceptualized in our culture. I imagine that the dictionary
will render an absurd (counter-intelligent) circularity as you start to chase
down “reason” from “intelligence” etc… (Eluding to the post that said
the dictionary defined Intelligent as “That which reasons” (or something
like that)). The concept and abstraction of suicide allowed this recursion
to occur in the first place; as a point of reference with which to observe
and abstract: ‘self moving with self purpose’.

In regards to defining custard as a property of intelligence,
(i.e. reason, ability to be rationalized by
being congealed consistently to existence),
I’m pointing out a reality that emerges of necessity in order for intelligence
to be discernible and meaningful as a word worth separating from
‘anything at all’ conceptually. The basis of this will be explaining why we
are required (in rationality) to anthropromorphize in order to abstract.
In light of this, I bring up an inherent vulnerability of this process; moving to explain how rationality ‘itself’ handles this in nature.

I plan to re-articulate this observation again; with the clarity I hope this post coherently applied as a summary of the intents and cohesiveness attempting to be conveyed by myself, towards you.

-Justhink

Bah! I forgot something… I’ve also had this sitting around for days.

“”“I’m going to have to concur with Mangetout here, Justhink. Your posts do show a complicated internal logic, but your overall theory seems to lack any external validity due to the fact that you refuse to, or are unable to, provide evidence for your viewpoints.”""

Part of what seems to be at issue here is that I am not able to provide evidence of anything, unless we can somehow agree upon something. These burdens are different on a message board; as we are working with concepts themselves in print; and virtulized representations of form in media.

I’m trying to dissect areas of universal agreement; that you can test on the other end, so that I can know (we can know?), that if you report a different result, you must be an absurd being.

“”""“For example, if your definition of intelligence extends to custard, perhaps you need to rein in your definition for the sake of practical purposes.”""""

I’m articulating that a circular logic exists in the defining process of intelligence, which allows it to pass off as anything. Basically, it is the same as defining meaning as: that which is meaningless.
I’m saying that it is absurd to draw a distinction between that which comprehends and that which is comprehended, or comprehensible. The distinction is through layers of abstraction, between these concepts; but not the conceptual framework itself which gives intelligence an existential value for perception.

We have to draw a line where we agree that an object can only be rationalized, with the understanding that it would agree with us. In fact; we have to prove it. The only way to prove it, is to equally agree with the object in question. The translation process is our work. That is a natural law, which I am prepared to demonstrate with more ‘words’.

I was asked to define intelligence, and I said that in order for the definition to be anything other than un-intelligence; that which can be reasoned, must fundamentally be veiwed as that which can and does reason; or else the entire concept and our relationship with it and our reason for acting it out, can be proven as unreaonable. Rather, the pinnicle of reason is to discard reason. I also eluded to an inherent exploitation resulting from this requirement of reason, and how to eliminate that exploitation.

Aparently, I haven’t stated this clearly enough…

“”""""“As this thread continues, your posts are apparently becoming more incoherent, and Mangetout is not the only one here concerned with your mental state. IANA psychatrist, and I may be wrong, but you’re either far above my head with this stuff (and I pretty much understood the gist of the OP) or you’re delusional.”""""

Part of what this thread is concerned with, is collapsing a noted resource (observed in this thread), which allows the flow of commodity to be unintelligently distributed. This resource is defined by the duality you just noted: I’m over your head, or I’m delusional"

I’m suggesting a mechanism that will prove, from the very standard of reason itself, that we can once and for all collapse the absurd moral and logical box that you are currently in.

It redeems everyone equally; while preserving difference.

The OP is one of many conclusions I personally draw from this precise conceptual articulations. I’m not, to some degree, interested in arguing the OP, as it becomes obvious in light of understanding how one can compose it rationally. It ultimately becimes a matter of your interest in how one would prove that the OP is rational, as implied from its existential value (it’s here, it exists). I’ll conceptualize existential value as that which you are accessing in your memory. To argue the additional phenomenal abstraction adds more clarity, but also a lot more words! So, we default to a form of solipsism for defining existential value; for the sake of brevity.

To draw a strong line of purpose from absurdity; you must believe that my OP is absolutely true in every way concievable.

You also have your own built-in OP, which mine negates on the premise of purpose.

This place you in a very tight spot.

If you deny my OP, you are denying existential value.
If you accept my OP, you are denying existential value.

No matter which course you administer, you will always be vulnerable to the savagery of that truth; and the existential validation of negating your reason for being. Your indentured system has been hooked counter-intelligently.

Basically, it creates a tap, which renders your executive control as inoperable, until ressure is exerted one way or the other by another body. All someone has to do, to control you, is to create these taps, or locate these taps.

Such individuals, by cannibalizing their own existential value, exert selective control over rational beings, by refusing to aknowledge that inaction or suicide is the only logical affirmation of that course of action.

-Justhink

To state one aspect more succinctly:

Western society has been committing suicide, and then proceeds not only to live; but to thrive. There is a slight problem.
As it is a counter-intelligent system, which accumulates necessary commodity against existential value; there is only one way to effectively attack this system until the entire resource is collapsed.

Phenominal suicide.

That is literally the only effective weapon that all other counter-intelligent beings have at their disposal; who have been displaced by the emergent statistical necessities of this system.
People literally, to combat an existential suicide that is STILL here, alive and thriving, must literally strap a bomb to their chests and start blowing up the psychological system with its polar opposite (both dynamics living in a counter-intelligent resource).

There is no other possible solution, if one accepts the values cannibalized by existential suicide. Pacifism does not accept those values, nihilism does not accept those values, and physical suicide rubs a very raw spot on those values. As a result, nihilism is counter-defined, intelligence is counter-defined, pacifism is mocked and suicide is shunned. This is the exact framework necessary to deny ones own irrational application of suicide to thrive. These beings are quite literally, insane.

-Justhink

Well, at least we know it’s an issue of semantics up front. I’m done. Philosophy is a slippery thing, and since you refuse to put your arguments into an understandable form, we’ll only be getting nowhere fast. So I’ll, unilaterally, end this little debate with no, the dictionary isn’t lying, and that definition fits jolly good.

I’m not going to bother reading anything after that, because, well, I really don’t care (ain’t that something).

Well, I’m glad you cleared that up for us. I should’ve known that a word can only mean whatever it’s Latin root is. Nope, words don’t evolve over time, have complexities, have different meanings, etc… Nihilism is the view I hold in regards to the meaning of this world and existence. Period. Full stop. My politics, religion, etc… are undoubtedly influenced by Nihilism, but they are still seperate issues.

Yeah, and the contradiction lies where? I think government is an efficient way to organize, discipline and utilize the human species, thus helping ensure the survival of the race. I think all of it’s meaningless in the end, yeah. I think existence is meaningless, yeah. That doesn’t mean I can’t hold different political theories to scrutiny, and advocate the one that achieves the goals I have in mind best. When I play video games, there is no real reason or higher purpose to what I’m doing. I’m just doing it. Having fun. I try and achieve in the game, not because I’ll go to video game heaven, but because it seems like the most natural thing to do when holding the controller.

I came back to clarify something. I would probably be better off described as an existential nihilist, rather than a true nihilist.

http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/n/nihilism.htm#Existential Nihilism

(click on the existential nihilism link)

“all action…is ultimately senseless and empty.”

This just states that you have no sensory extremities with which to percieve. Or maybe you’ll just settle for insanity?

-Justhink

For the record, I mentioned ‘messiah complex’ for no other reason than that I believed it to be a term that aptly described your delusions, Justhink (by which I mean this idea that you alone understand something fundamental about the universe and you alone will provide a radical solution). As it turns out, I was quite mistaken (about the definition of messiah complex).

You simply don’t write intelligible posts Justhink; whatever meaning you are trying to convey is obscured by your verbosity.

“”""" As it turns out, I was quite mistaken (about the definition of messiah complex).""""

It applies to a sense of singularity of purpose. Irreducibility, irreplacability. The only rational decryption for it is an instantaneous capacity to provide all of your ability and conceptual framework upon request; without prejudice.

I’m not irreplacable! I believe the general motivation of life is to attempt validating yourself existentially. I have no illusions that my existence hasn’t already been existentially negated as we speak.

One problem with the confines of the defining process for messiah complex, is what provides a sustainable resource for a psychiatric institution. On this particular diagnosis, anything which validates youself existentially becomes catagorized under the scope of the complex. Again, it’s another instance where the line is drawn between what negates existential value and what re-enforces it. Without this line, the discernment of messiah complex becomes so unified as to render arguments of discernment, meaningless.

Take a moment to ponder the terms:
Irreducibility
Irreplacability

A mind that takes a few moments to practice noticing these aspects, will see them translate constantly in daily human interaction. They are used to assert purpose. Elimination of these forms of abstraction create no existential pressure on our self-abstraction to modify ourselves in a selective sense. Unless some humans abstract this to maintain slavery; the entire purpose for being self-aware is not recieving any gain, as such, the energy divvied towards our self-abstraction will be cut.
Elimination of this form, proves suicide in logic.
So… the hazy ideal of balance emerges.

Much of this, is in disagreeing with the opaque concept of ‘balance’, by asserting that there are definite differences between existentially positive and existentially negative behavior. Existentially positive behavior seeks to collapse resources (dependancies) and maintain its self-awareness.

We’ve brought up eating quite a bit, as something clearly ingrained. Eating, is something which can be automated - to the degree that we provide shelter for a microbe that excretes waste which we metabolize.

Without drawing these clear lines of properies and evidence; we sustain a system which “works to create more work”; which does not prove or even allow the mind to humor the selective padding, which grants existential rest without being dead. Without these continuous introductions, the self-abstraction will terminate itself.

One method that is used to rationalize the diagnosis of messiah complex, and encourage breaking it down, is the form: “You cannot effect the lives of other people.”. This is a umm… interesting stance. It sort of negates points of reason from all perspectives, but, at $300.00 an hour, you can usually bet on the indentured system to automate the process.

“”"“You simply don’t write intelligible posts Justhink; whatever meaning you are trying to convey is obscured by your verbosity.”""""

I don’t want to be unclear. I think that I need to set up a website, and not clutter SDMB with this stuff. At least, then, my unintelligability will be out there; and my feeble mind can rest in peace with the ignorance that people understand it. chuckle

I’m chuckling, as that is an application of religious techniques I’ve been studying to provide meaning; I can’t stand the thought of actually using one on myself. That means I’d start using them on others, and then it’s just a downward spiral, until I start talking about sports statistics without considering how to collapse the resource. Psychology practices with the idea that suicide ideation is an illness; and as such, misses out on the subtleties of existential suicide. I imagine that most suicide cases are existentially based; not negative. How one manages to kill an entire mind into counter-intelligent demensia and then sleep at night is beyond me.

I do believe setting up a website seems to be most prudent though.

-Justhink

Well, be sure to give us the link, won’t you.

I have to say that I’m starting to agree with [whoever it was back on page 1] that it really does look (from where I’m sitting) as if you are deliberately obscuring your point (if indeed there is one) in layer upon layer of complex language; can you not just call a spade a spade?

How the hell is anyone supposed to extract sense out of phrases like:

?

I’m glad somebody finally had the guts to make this point. Bravo!
[sub]juskid[/sub]

Pretty much, yes. A word’s meaning is indeed constrained by its Latin root. Some people maintain that a word can mean whatever they want it to mean (usually people with a scientific or maths background, I’ve noticed) but they are wrong.

Words are powerful things but, more than that, they are very precise weapons. You need to use them carefully. A word cannot mean something other than its Latin root so it is therefore constrained by its Latin root.

eg the word “intelligence” has been bandied about here by Justhink and others. The meaning of “intelligence” is quite clear. It comes from the Latin word inter meaning between and the Latin word legere meaning to choose. So intelligence means the ability to choose between various options, the ability to discern.

The word intelligence cannot mean anything else. It cannot mean “the ability to eat 50 eggs” however much you or I may want it to mean that.

It is constrained by its Latin root. Likewise with the word “nihilism”. If you start unilaterally changing what you mean by a particular word because you happen to like another definition better then no one is going to understand anyone any more.

It’s actually a good thing that words are like this. Looking at the Latin (or Greek) root of a word helps you refine your understanding that word. You understand what a word is saying much better.

eg “intelligence” = “to choose between” - doesn’t that help you appreciate the meaning of the word “intelligence” more?

Justhink

The theory of Relativity is only true within the bounds of the theory of physics. You seem to be saying that physicists believe that “Relativity” is true across the whole of reality. They aren’t saying this.

Allow me to paraphrase Douglas Adams:

Reality is big, really big. No amount of me saying how big it is can ever put across just how mind-boggingly huge it is. Listen, you think it’s a long walk down to the local shop, well that’s nothing compared to Reality…

Physics theories (in their current form) are just one tiny component of one tiny part of Reality. A good book for you to read would be “The Fabric of Reality” by David Deutsch. Relativity is only true for so long as it fits available data. As soon as it fails to do that, it will be amended or jettisoned. It’s only a theory.

So how can it be “counter-intelligent” when even physicists are more than willing to abandon it if it becomes useless? You say:

"society is led to believe that “Everything is relative”

Who cares what society believes in regard to the theory of Relativity. “Society” in general knows less than nothing about physics theories (including Relativity). The specialists (the physicists) are already picking away at Relativity with ideas like String Theory etc.

You should always start from the known and proceed from there (into the unknown). I worry that you may be coming from the other direction, starting from the unknown and coming back into the known, behaving “counter-intelligently” in fact.

You say a Messiah has to immediately transfer truth upon request otherwise he is either lying or absurd.

Well says who? You? How do you know what a Messiah must or must not do? Reality is big, there could be options you haven’t considered or maybe a Messiah just plain doesn’t have to transfer anything until a time of his choosing - the correct time.

Your whole “intelligence-counter-intelligence” construct is contained within a box. Objective truth lies outside your box. You say that your theory is a:

“computational framework”

Well, sadly, you cannot create a framework without knowing all the parameters and you can’t know all the parameters without being God.

You also say:

“I’m taking a long time to convey this conceptual framework for peer review. It is big, cumbersome, somewhat unexciting…”

Boy, you got THAT right.

I think I’m right in saying that Justhink is trying to formulate an entirely novel epistemology Jojo, in which case starting with the known (for which you might actually read ‘the commonly accepted as true’) wouldn’t necessarily be a helpful approach.

That isn’t to say that I have the faintest idea what he is trying to say because I don’t, but my impression, so far is:

He believes that to some extent, the actions of individuals and societies contradict their own best interests and motives, possibly they exhibit some sort of logical paradox that renders them (in his view) insane or morally bankrupt.

He believes that he has glimpsed a system whereby such actions would (and I’m more than a little unclear on this bit) either be simply impossible, or would betray themselves immediately, furthermore the system generates a flow of innovation and knowledge.

He believes that this new system will implement itself at some point in the near future when he unveils some sort of trigger.

That’s the impression I get from trying to read what he is saying, but I have to add that I believe him to be very much mistaken.

Epistemology is the theory of knowledge. According to this epistemology website, knowledge has three elements:

So epistemology still requires that you proceed from the known to the unknown. The only other option is to proceed from the unknown into the known.

You can’t do this because there are an infinite amount of “unknowns” but only a finite number of “knowns”. So it’s like a kind of pipe with a one-way valve on it. Logic can only flow one-way.

ps mangetout

I pretty much agree with your synopsis of Justhink’s theory so far.

Well, with a little help from Microsoft Word, I have figured out what Justthink has posted about in this thread. He has posted about 24,000 words.

Your summary is precisely correct Mangetout. I have excellent reasons to agree with myself s; however, that does mean I have no reason to assume a ‘trigger’ or ‘me’ is inherent.

This is particularly true to me in the sense that many of the same ideas circulate throughout the species at the same time. I plan to start from the very first thing humans beings can know; at which point I plan to integrate the definition of every word used to describe each axiom, as this entire ‘novel’ progresses.

One thing of which I am certain, is that rationality and sentience both have boundaries. They are not however the only things that exist. The task I plan to set before me, is to meticulously define axiomicly and seperate the two. I plan to do it in such a way, as to be inarguable; possibly undeniable… that, however may be a semantic issue. I believe that I can eradicate the concept of balance and a variety of other non-transparent psychological phenomenon. In terms of people and logic itself, I believe that we will begin to collapse resources consciously at some point; rather than creating them as we have in the past.

That is how I see the trend emerging.

-Justhink

“”""So epistemology still requires that you proceed from the known to the unknown. The only other option is to proceed from the unknown into the known.

You can’t do this because there are an infinite amount of “unknowns” but only a finite number of “knowns”. So it’s like a kind of pipe with a one-way valve on it. Logic can only flow one-way."""

Conceptual framework emerges opposite of this though. Conveying epiphany is starting from the unknown first and ending with the known; at which point it snaps into place.
It’s like a domino effect that harmonizes each word with the last point. The observation of multiple trends can take a while in logic; simply stating it off the bat renders:

“Hmm… I agree with that”
“Hmm… I don’t agree with that”

Integrating every possible denial, renders:

“Of course”

I believe that these “of course!('s)” can be collapsed, to such a degree that going back or finding a new revelation (that treats it as yesterdays ‘fad’), can be established with an articulation that I don’t find present in my little world here. There’s a part of me that has a vested interest in doing this, as I seem to have a very difficult time proving my own existence. I would rely on my knack for not getting stuck either way, as reasonable evidence that a conclusion I make must be considerably rigourous.

I use tools like “I can never be wrong, I can’t make a mistake”
(other messiah complex forms); to process existence, to solicit answers from my own mind in relation to reality. I use a number of tools for this purpose, which hopefully manages to establish a truth that I feel comfortable with. If anything, I hope to be able to place a ‘capture’ on those with dissociation effects. The only way I can concieve this as possible; is to crawl up reality judging everything on the concepts of suicide, non-existence and negation. Anything less, doesn’t seem like it will evade the brilliance of the human mind to dodge and panic.

-Justhink

-Justhink

OK, I think I understand the gist of what you are attempting, but I’m still unclear on how you intend to do it.

You are aware, are you not, that the 'starting with nothing, let us attempt to deduce everything that can be known solely by pure logic" has been attempted several times before, notably by Aristotle and Descartes?

I’m also interested to know if humour (essentially, I suppose, welcomed deliberate deception and wilful temporary delusion) will be able to find a place in your new regime.